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View Diary: Rep. Virginia Foxx has 'little tolerance' for student loans (270 comments)

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  •  Your numbers agree with what I said. (0+ / 0-)

    I said:  

    College costs about $7000 per year at in-state rates---double that in a state with an imploding economy, like California
    UCLA is in California, and its tuition is $12686.  this number is less than double of 7K.  So what exactly are you arguing here?

    Your second link is to an insanely expensive private college, more expensive than Harvard, Princeton or Yale.  Only about 120 colleges nationwide have prices this high.  I think it's disingenuous to post a link like that to argue that college is expensive:  it's like pricing up a Bentley to prove that driving a car is expensive.

    Also, I know I already hammered on this, but when you say

    Dorms are usually the cheapest housing solution, other than living with one's parents
    ...you are actually contradicting your own numbers.  According to the UCLA link you quoted above, dorms are about 40% more expensive than living off-campus.  This disparity is pretty typical of dorm life in US colleges today.

    Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

    by Caj on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:26:02 AM PDT

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    •  The U.C.L.A. figures don't include summer rent. (0+ / 0-)

      NONE of the college budgets include the cost of apartment rent for the summer months. Yet unless you can find someone to sublet, and get your landlord to approve the person subletting, you still have to pay it. No one is going to give you a nine-month lease. So add 3 X $1,400 to your off-campus figures. Plus utilities, plus food.

      So no, living in the dorms during the school year and spending summers with Mom and Dad is not more expensive.

      As for Harvard, having the world's biggest endowment undoubtedly subsidizes tuition and fees. In any case, their budget comes to $54,561, compared to Scripps's $54,900.

      Wesleyan costs $69,714.

      Bard College is $56,962

      http://handbook.fas.harvard.edu/...

      http://www.wesleyan.edu/...

      http://www.bard.edu/...

      Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

      by expatjourno on Sun Apr 15, 2012 at 04:04:11 AM PDT

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      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
        So add 3 X $1,400 to your off-campus figures. Plus utilities, plus food.
        Where the Hell do you live, where a three-bedroom apartment costs $4200/month to rent?

        Also:  if I don't find a subletter when I go home for the summer, why do I still have to pay for food?  Is there going to be a squatter in my apartment who isn't paying to sublet?

        I think you're concocting an overly pessimistic picture of the cost of living.  As a college student I was able to find a sub-let every year---and really, getting your landlord to approve?  Like they're going to say, "no, you have to go broke and fail to make the rent."

        As for Harvard, having the world's biggest endowment undoubtedly subsidizes tuition and fees. In any case, their budget comes to $54,561, compared to Scripps's $54,900.

        Wesleyan costs $69,714.

        Bard College is $56,962

        And so what?  You can choose not to go to Wesleyan or Bard or Columbia or any other private school that charges this kind of money.

        You're basically saying that it's not just Bentleys, but also BMWs, that are prohibitively expensive.  This doesn't mean that 99%ers can't afford to drive a car.

        Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

        by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 11:07:52 AM PDT

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        •  Those are pretty normal big-city rents. (0+ / 0-)

          As I said, my one-bedroom apartment was $600 per month in 1979. The $1,400 per month figure makes apartment living about the same or more expensive than living on the dorms. Just google Los Angeles apartment rents.

          As a college student I was able to find a sub-let every year---and really, getting your landlord to approve?
          You don't know much about Los Angeles rents or Los Angeles landlords, do you?

          The average budget, though, is lower than what I've cited. Since we began this discussion, I looked up the federal figures. I'm not linking because I can't be bothered to re-google, but it's a little more than $30,000 per year on average. So I do see your point.

          But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city. So it's not quite as simple as you portray it, either.

          Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

          by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 12:44:00 PM PDT

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          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
            You don't know much about Los Angeles rents or Los Angeles landlords, do you?
            Fine.  If LA is so incredibly inhospitable and expensive a place to live, why not go to a state college outside of LA?

            After all, you're not talking about a problem with the UC system, you're talking about a basic problem with the cost of living in a big city.  We have that in NY too:  Manhattan is incredibly expensive, but the SUNY system has 64 branches all over the state, and if you are too broke to live in NYC you can go to school in Binghamton, Buffalo, Albany and dozens of other places where students get by on a fraction of the cost.

            We're talking about the simple act of procuring a living arrangement that won't put you tens of thousands of dollars in debt.  You can argue all you want that this is too hard to accomplish, but zillions of college students manage to do so every year.  

            But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city.
            That's just elitist hogwash, and absolutely false.  I got a computer science degree from Northern Illinois University, and this got me a job at Intel's main research lab in Santa Clara.  Later it got me admission to a Ph.D. program at Princeton University. Nobody turned me away because my degree was "midwestern" or my college too provincial.

            And why would they?  A CS education in Illinois is the same as a CS education in San Francisco.  We use the same computer chips there.  Math is the same there.  It doesn't make any logical sense for an HR department to turn you down because your degree is from a flyover state.

            Maybe there are fields where the education matters less than the clique represented by your degree, where employers are assholes about whether you went to an Ivy league school or are urbane enough to fit in with their big city firm.  I wouldn't want to major in a subject like that, though, and I can't imagine who would want to end up in that kind of clubbish environment.

            Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

            by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 02:41:03 PM PDT

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            •  Maybe? (0+ / 0-)
              Maybe there are fields where the education matters less than the clique represented by your degree, where employers are assholes about whether you went to an Ivy league school or are urbane enough to fit in with their big city firm.
              Hahahahahahaha. You ARE naïve, aren't you?

              Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

              by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:21:07 PM PDT

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              •  I suppose I must be. (0+ / 0-)

                As I said, I never had any problems with grad admissions, the job market or getting tenure despite hailing from a lesser "midwestern" college.  

                But again, if there are fields where people are huge dicks about where you went to school, why would anyone want to major in them?  Who wants to be one of those people?  You ask kids what they want to be when they grow up, and nobody says, "I want to be a snide elitist dickbag who won't hire anyone who went anywhere more working-class than Brown."  

                If there is a world like that, I'm not ashamed to be laughably naïve of it.  It sounds both unpleasant and---if you need to go to some fancy 1%er designer label school---a really moronic way to spend your money.  

                Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:41:26 PM PDT

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              •  And for that matter (0+ / 0-)

                Why would a company like that hire a liberal?  Assuming a liberal would take the job.

                Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

                by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:50:53 PM PDT

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          •  Also... (0+ / 0-)
            But a degree from a college in the midwest that has only a local reputation may be fine if you live in the midwest, or aspire to live in the midwest, but it's not going to get you far in the big city.
            I think you should consider the irony of saying this on Daily Kos:  Marcos also went to NIU, the same backwater midwestern state school I did.  Obviously that didn't get him very far, right?  Not good enough for the Big City, right?

            Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

            by Caj on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 02:55:26 PM PDT

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            •  And Marcos is just an average guy, right? (0+ / 0-)

              Bill Gates didn't even graduate from college. What does THAT prove? That no one needs to go to college?

              Barack Obama: So morally bankrupt that he thinks people who tortured other people to death should get a pass. Likes to prosecute whistleblowers and pot smokers, though.

              by expatjourno on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 03:19:29 PM PDT

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              •  pretty much (0+ / 0-)

                despite the success (after quite some time) of his site, marcos is a pretty regular guy. he is not (no offense to the guy) some sort of super-genius.

                i went to NIU also. despite being a cheap school in the midwest with only a local reputation, my degree got me a fine job that i've been working for the last 15 years.

                does it get me far in 'the big city'? i live in NYC. i'm putting my wife through 9 years of grad school and raising a child on my single income. sounds like my 'flyover country midwestern bumpkin college degree' got me pretty fuckin far.

                you seem to have this image of college based on whether or not your degree will get you in the door at some high-priced NY law firm where it's all about what ivy league school you went to and what fraternity you pledged. that's great television, but most jobs are not like that. the vast majority of us shlubs work in jobs where a regular degree gets you in the door just as well.

                anyone born after the McDLT has no business stomping around acting punk rock

                by chopper on Wed Apr 18, 2012 at 08:50:26 AM PDT

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