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View Diary: Zimmerman - "Stand Your Ground" Pretrial Immunity Hearing? (161 comments)

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  •  yes. (5+ / 0-)

    He's got the indisputable (and recorded on tape) facts against him.

    He's also got the disputable facts leaning against him, like the 9-1-1 of the screaming.  Logic alone tells you that it couldn't be Zimmerman screaming.

    Zimmerman's whole story doesn't pass the smell test.

    Then again, all they need is one stubborn jurist to get a hung jury.

    Then it starts all over again.


    may we not be strangers in the lush province of joy - Charles Wright

    by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 07:51:44 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  yeah, the 911 calls are key (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AlyoshaKaramazov, Avila

      They definitely put the puzzle together better. Rarely do you have 911 calls from the victim, perpetrator, and eye witnesses.  

      "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

      by Texas Lefty on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:28:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  ear witnesses too. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nowhere Man

        The woman who called before anyone else did, may just be the key to it all.  I think that is why Z got murder 2 instead of manslaughter.

        Trayvon was obviously incapacitated in some way, and Z shot him anyway.

        BTW, do you have a link stating that there IS a 9-1-1 call from Trayvon?  I haven't seen that yet.


        may we not be strangers in the lush province of joy - Charles Wright

        by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:36:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  sorry, mistake on my part. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AlyoshaKaramazov, Avila, Nowhere Man

          I didn't mean to include Trayvon speaking to his girlfriend on the phone as a 911 call.  I should have said that rarely do you have phone evidence from all sides.  

          "I'm a progressive man and I like progressive people" Peter Tosh

          by Texas Lefty on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:47:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well, there were reports (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Avila, wishingwell

            that Trayvon had called 9-1-1, but it doesn't make much sense, timewise, that he could have.

            Reports seem to suggest that his phone was slapped out of his hand, and i doubt he had time to recover it.

            Unless, in the short time he had lost Z, he was able to at least dial.


            may we not be strangers in the lush province of joy - Charles Wright

            by AlyoshaKaramazov on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 08:56:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  ear witness (0+ / 0-)

          I think Texas means that one can hear Trayvon on the call made by a witness, pleading for help.

          I`m already against the next war.

          by Knucklehead on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 09:31:32 AM PDT

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        •  ABC News reported but retracted (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AlyoshaKaramazov, harrije

          on March 24:

          however, the reported call to 911 by Trayvon Martin has never been confirmed.

          News7 Chicago reports Trayvon Martin, the Sanford, Florida teen who was shot and killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer, allegedly made his own call to 911 just moments before his death.
        •  There is *no* confirmed Martin 9-1-1 call (0+ / 0-)

          That was reported once (and re-reported who knows how many times) but it was never confirmed and has since been retracted.

          sin and love and fear are just sounds that people who never sinned nor loved nor feared have for what they never had and cannot have until they forget the words

          by harrije on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 01:27:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  TM was on the phone w g/f until fight then he died (0+ / 0-)

            It seems possible that he ended his call w the g/f around the time he decided walk away from the mailbox shelter,  to pass by Zimmerman's car and then to take off running.  Then, when had reached the relative safety of being off the street and behind the townhouse, they resumed their conversation.  According to the logs, one call started around 7:04 and the other at 7:12pm.  

            Cops were on the scene a few minutes after that, and Trayvon was dead.  One tragic possibility is that if TM's g/f "Dee Dee" hadn't called him the second time, he might have run all the way home.  It's possible he stopped his flight to answer his phone.

            Her full statement has not yet been made public.  Trayvon's lawyers are the one who took her statement, and what little that has been described of her words verbatim seems to indicate she is possibly not the world's best exemplar of "the king's english" to put it delicately.  

            She's a 16 year old urban gal from Miami, Florida and speaks like one.  Parsing the exact meaning of what she recalls hearing in her call, and the exact timing of events, etc will be tricky for a (likely mostly white) jury, and while what she seems to have heard is very important to the case, she may be reluctant to take the stand and expose herself to media scrutiny and cross examination.  It was reported that she was so upset over the news of Trayvon's death that she had to be hospitalized.  

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