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View Diary: Catholic Bishops pushing for Partisan War in the Summer (52 comments)

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  •  Well, it's the system we've got (4+ / 0-)

    And they haven't objected in the past. They're objecting now because the Republican Party has basically given them the go=ahead, and they are working hand in glove to help elect more Republicans. Xavier University in Cincinnati cancelled contraceptive coverage last week after providing it for years due to "the national discussion" — in other words, controversy ginned up by the Republicans, not a searching of their consciences and beliefs.

    Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

    by anastasia p on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 11:18:52 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Whatever the motive behind Church officials (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      mandating that Catholic institutions buy and pay for something opens the door for those Catholic institutions wanting a say in what they buy and pay for.  It's just a basic economic fact -- if I buy and pay for something, I want a say in it.  

      It was a totally predictable political fight on both sides.  

      Politically, I suspect that the revitalized interest has something to do with the boost opponents of the law got after the SCOTUS argument.  If the administration spends a couple of months defending the law, and then it's struck down, that makes the administration look bad.  If it wasn't about politics, I would think people would wait to see what the SCOTUS does, because if they strike the ACA, this fight becomes unnecessary.  

      •  Fine then I should not see my tax dollars go to (4+ / 0-)

        Catholic Hospitals because I will NEVER allow myself if I am conscious to be admitted. In fact, I now will not use a Dr affiliated with a cathoilic hospital. So I will raise hell the next time a Catholic Hospital wants to build in my area and get lower property taxes and out front subsidies to do so. I will NEVER trust them to make medical decisions that are not biased against me so I don't consider them an actual  benefit to the community of non catholics.

        Actually since the religious right has made such an issue of treating women like livestock instead of thinking beings who can choose for themselves I ask every Dr what his or her religious bent is.  Have to to know that what treatment they choose isn't a reflection of how they value women. They may let me die or suffer permanent damage to fit thier beliefs.

        If ones religious freedom  means that you can offer a product without revealing just how that product works then that is crap. It is like labeling. If ones religious freedom means that you can simply choose what religious beliefs help you get around the laws of the country then the laws of the country HAVE NO VALUE because I can claim religious beliefs that invalidate any of those laws. Maybe I should form a religion and pay no taxes.

        Proud Slut...Fear is the Mind Killer

        by boophus on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 12:23:16 PM PDT

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        •  Absolutely the right thing to do (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          VClib

          you absolutely should not go to a Catholic hospital. Or a Catholic University.  That is absolutely your right.  

          As for tax breaks, if they meet the standards for non-profit under the law, they need to be treated like any other non-profit under the law, religious or not.  That's what the First Amendment means.  Religions, for example, are not exempt because they are religious; they are exempt if they meet the standards for non-profits under section 501(c)(3).  If you form an organization that meets those standards, you get the same tax breaks.

          And a unanimous Supreme Court says that in certain instances, religious institutions are not bound by certain laws, like the ADA.  That's because the First Amendment -- which constitutionally guarantees free exercise --- supersedes certain laws in certain instances.  See the unanimous decision.

          •  Not strictly true. They are exempted specifically (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dirtandiron

            because they are religious, so long as their earnings do not inure to any private shareholder.

            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:27:34 PM PDT

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            •  Nope. There's no special IRS rule for religious (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              enhydra lutris, VClib

              institutions.  They are exempted if they meet 501(c)(3) standards.  See page 3 of this IRS publication, where the IRS explains to churches that they get the tax treatment if, and only if, they meet 501(c)(3) standards.  

              •  Dude, read the code section, you can find it (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dirtandiron

                online.
                (3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation,
                organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable,
                scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational
                purposes,
                or to foster national or international amateur sports
                competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the
                provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the
                prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net
                earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private
                shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities
                of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to
                influence legislation

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:45:42 PM PDT

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              •  There are, BTW, shitloads of non-profit (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dirtandiron

                organizations which are not exempt, especially not under 501(c)(3) which also permits the deductin of contributions to said organization via Code Section 170.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 03:48:23 PM PDT

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          •  Wow how very generous of you to tell me I have (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            reflectionsv37, Dirtandiron

            a right to not use Catholic facilities. How about my right not to see my  taxes used to subsidize the conastruction of a hospital that you allow me the right to not use.  But somehow I have no choice about using my limited funds to allow them to establish a government supported religious institution that denies me the right to knowing medical options and being able to receive them. How very clever to allow me one right while supporting thier right to steal from me.  So your reading of the freedom of religion is that they have the freedom to take my money and the right to not practice real medicine where patients have choices as to what is best for them.

            Similar to Bush giving funds to churches who were then allowed to deny me services unless I bowed to thier beliefs and followed thier rituals. Of course he and Obama are very careful to give those funds to churches that don't offend a majorities beliefs. The right is really pushing for this... government established institutions that support thier religious practices at the expense and the denial of others beliefs.

            Extending that idea will inevitably lead to a theocracy if religious freedom means the right to take tax subsidies while paying no taxes and imposing your beliefs on others by shortchanging services to meet theological dogma. How can an individual win? You can't! They take your money through taxing agencies and then restrict services so you get to nothing of value & a situation where there can be no trust and you have people saying fine you are free to choose not to be abused by someone elses beliefs ... go die or suffer if you can't afford to pay again. Yeah smart view on freedom of religion.. screw everyone except the religion you favor. No medical facility will be uncontaminated and medicine will become the realm of religions vying to use your very health to trap you into supporting them.

            This is what activist religious are doing all over. Trying to regain power to choose who to farm, who to let die and who to actively denounce and kill.

            Proud Slut...Fear is the Mind Killer

            by boophus on Sat Apr 14, 2012 at 04:24:01 PM PDT

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      •  It opens no doors. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dirtandiron

        1) Insurance companies are, in this case, eager to give "something for nothing" as someone put it above, because it is much, much less expensive to pay for birth control than it is to pay for pregnancies.

        2) If the churches want to engage in commercial and/or secular activities, they have to play by secular and/or commercial rules.  If the Catholic church decided to open a bakery, should it be tax exempt? Should it have the right to discriminate against employees?  

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