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View Diary: Greedy, Lazy Firefighters Caught on Tape Wasting Tax Money (199 comments)

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  •  I was wondering that too... (3+ / 0-)
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    mikeconwell, raster44, Tonedevil

    and didn't the firefighters union in WI endorse Scott Walker?  I'm sorry, there are many firefighter and police unions that lean GOP - and then they bitch when they have to do a dangerous job with little pay and benefits.

    'Osama Bin Ladien is still dead and GM is still alive' - Joe Biden

    by RichM on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 11:37:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  See below (9+ / 0-)

      For a short list of links to TYT being colossal assholes to first responders.

      Regarding the culture and the tendency to lean right, please note that the cultural dynamics are really complex and complicated by civilians (mostly) having 1st Amendment rights while we don't.  I know, it doesn't seem like that would make a difference, but it totally does.

      It would be great if people could refrain from judging cultures they don't understand.

      •  Why Do Say That You Don't Have Any... (1+ / 0-)
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        1st Amendment Rights but "civilians" do.  Are you a miitary firefighter?

        Of course the military has limits, so that they do not become a political organization and stage a coup.

        But if you work for a city or county, your rights are not abridged.  Of course everyone "self limits" their Free Speech at times because the consequences of the Free Speech they were contemplating were worse than keeping one's mouth shut.

        The same goes for every employee.  

        We all have a right to Free Speech, but we do not have a right to pick the consequences of our Free Speech.

        •  There's a lot of confusion (1+ / 0-)
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          about the use of the word "civilian," apparently.

          Fire, police, and EMS agencies are paramilitary organizations.  We're not military, but we're also not civilians.

          But if you work for a city or county, your rights are not abridged.

          Where did you get your information?  I have lots of evidence to the contrary.  

          Of course everyone "self limits" their Free Speech at times because the consequences of the Free Speech they were contemplating were worse than keeping one's mouth shut.
          Again, the paramilitary, governmental organizations shut down our free speech as part of the indoctrination process.  This is pretty much universally understood in our world.  Of course, if you're right-leaning you have a lot more leeway.  But no, we're not allowed to comment publicly.
          •  Can You Name An Employer That... (1+ / 0-)
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            embraces the idea of allowing employees to pubicly disagree with the company?

            I am sure that somebody somewhere does allow public criticism by its employees.  But this would be very rare.

            Could you be arrested for speaking out?  That would be a restriction of your 1st Amendment rights.  

            If I am a server at the Olive Garden, I have the 1st Amendment Right to tell a patron he/she has ugly hair.  I doubt that I could be arrested for the comment.  But the patron could refuse to tip me and the boss could fire me.  I have my rights and they have their rights.

            •  The difference is (2+ / 0-)
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              KenBee, Calamity Jean

              that we're not talking about customers with ugly hair.

              We're talking about the people at the tail end of the government being the front line of the "no transparency" issue.  

              Really, that's what it boils down to.  The powers that be have gone to great lengths to keep us from communicating with the citizens.  Why?  Because we know where the bodies are buried, so to speak.  We know specifically what's wrong with our system, when and how citizens are being abused.  

              A lot of us feel like that's a very serious problem.  Civilians apparently don't think it is.

              Could you be arrested for speaking out?  That would be a restriction of your 1st Amendment rights.  
              Well, I didn't get arrested, but I did get fired for insisting they turn off Fox News in my work area.

              Then there's Mr. Fuddlesticks, they did try to arrest him for cyberstalking the Renton, WA Police Department (#NotKidding) because he made anonymous cartoons parodying official misconduct in his department and posted them on YouTube.  Didn't mention any proper names, mind you.  They're still actively investigating that as a criminal matter, far as I know.

              Then there's the detectives at the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office and their "Brady list" of co-workers who should never be on the streets, i.e., sex offenders, drug addicts, thieves, racist batterers.

              Do you believe there's some mechanism for them to get on the mic?  Or does the public not need that information?  I believe two of them are under indictment as of this writing.

              •  and proposed cyber so-called' security' (1+ / 0-)
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                Xavier Onassis EMTP

                laws would make exactly that kind of petty  pissaant mid level ass covering back stabbing motherfucker public official ( the same one sparhawk wants to have say so) to find out exactly who and where you are, whoever 'you' is.

                Gee zus, we are truly fkd.

                (too harsh? :>)
                (not harsh enough? :>)

                From those who live like leeches on the people's lives, We must take back our land again, America!...Langston Hughes

                by KenBee on Mon Apr 16, 2012 at 09:09:36 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The other thing (2+ / 0-)
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                  zett, KenBee

                  about Sparhawk's perfectly knowledgeable decision-maker should be that they get tapped to personally go deal with shit when it happens, i.e., the famous 2:00 a.m. phone call.

                  Hey there's a nursing home on fire, we're evacuating 180 disabled elderly people, come on over.

                  Unlike a garbage route, there's no way to control work flow.  So just because we're dealing with the burning nursing home, that won't prevent a wreck, someone having a heart attack or seizure, or some grown adult calling us because they've had diarrhea for two days.

                  But no, the decision maker doesn't have to be there to see how shit actually goes, at least not in Libertopia.

                  •  Sorry I ran across this late. (1+ / 0-)
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                    Xavier Onassis EMTP

                    And I just sent my comment into cyber space. Really excellent diary XO. I have worked critical care and home care with a lot of paramedics. The job is incredibly stressful without the political garbage.

                    My experience with civilian oversight at a community hospital I worked ICU/CCU in was they wanted to replace all the prefilled drug syringes on the crash carts with vials and standard syringes. That was easy enough to explain, still exposes the problem with ignorance.

                    I especially abhor the lack of support for FF and EMTs to get PTSD therapy. Haven't had time to check for studies. You probably know the stats. I'm guessing percent into the 90's after five years in an urban area with fires, MVAs, gangs, etc.

                    I have my own memories of the burned kids who made it - horribly disfigured for life. And the charred bodies of the ones who didn't. I worry about the siblings who survived, saw the brothers and sisters who died or went through years of grafts and surgeries, and have survivors guilt.

                    When I look at what we spend on our military, equipment, tanks, ships, planes, munitions, over seas bases, and realize what we could have for first responders here without putting a ding in that budget, it makes my skin crawl.

                    As far as this

                    Please keep this in mind next time you hear some civilian idiot like The Young Turks criticizing the on-scene actions of a fire crew.
                    just don't listen to TYT. It will put the BP up to stroke level.  ;)

                    "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

                    by Ginny in CO on Wed Apr 18, 2012 at 10:51:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Thanks, you're exactly right (1+ / 0-)
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                      Ginny in CO

                      especially about the PTSD and the civilian backseat drivers.  However, nurses are still evil.  ;)

                      One of the things that brought me to the point of no return with TYT was a botched abortion of a report they did on a NICU nurse (I could never, ever work NICU, I don't have the intestinal fortitude for it).  The genius yuppie parents wanted to remove the baby AMA and were being allowed to, until a nurse called CPS.  Then they had to leave the baby overnight pending investigation, which was really all the nurse wanted anyway.  

                      Professor Haltertop's expert opinion was that CPS "took the baby away," so she opened with getting all the control freak lunatics enraged.  Then she went on to basically who does that nurse think she is, the doctor already said the baby was fine.  Because you know, the doctor knows so much more than the nurse that it's ridiculous for the nurse to chime in.  The whole thing was incredibly sexist and classist, and made a whizzing sound as it went rocketing bast that *#%$#)('s head.

                      I'm afraid to face palm it, I might end up with a LeFort fracture.

                      But you know, if I speak from the actual feelings underneath the mountain of my PTSD, people here will want to donut me, even if I scale it back.

                      Needless to say I wasted several days flaming trolls on that comment thread.  I'll be damned if I'll stand by while civilians throw a boot party on a NICU nurse, which is exactly what TYT set up.  

    •  Not Wisconsin-wide. Milwaukee only. (2+ / 0-)
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      mikeconwell, RichM

      In fact, Mahlon Mitchell, current President of the Professional Fire Fighters of Wisconsin, is running for Lt. Gov. against Kleefisch.

      •  Public safety unions (1+ / 0-)
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        in general are such a tangled web of agendas that there's really no discussing them without opening up Pandora's box.  Like the agencies themselves, each one is unique culturally and politically.  Some of them are definitely better than others.  Seems like it's a much more nuanced conversation than many people are willing to have, though.

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