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View Diary: F*ck You John McCain! (296 comments)

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  •  i agree. could never see what people (11+ / 0-)

    admired in that a-hole.

    Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

    by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Apr 19, 2012 at 06:32:38 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Not a lot to admire, (6+ / 0-)

      but he deserved some basic respect for his military service, and compared to the rest of the GOP, he came across as somewhat sane. But that whole facade blew up long ago.

      •  well, i'm a little - no, a lot different from (7+ / 0-)

        many here: i don't admire people who serve in unjust wars, which vietnam most certainly was.  

        i think the notion that we should honor the warrior if not the war is to ask me, and the soldiers involved to glorify duty over humanity, glorify orders over individual self detirmination.  it's an a priori nuremberg defense and i won't participate it.  in fact i'm surprised at how many people here do accept that faulty reasoning.

        the soldier's conscience and critical analysis of his situation, is the lynchpin on which unjust wars are prosecuted and succeed or fail.  they are the war.  i am not helping humanity to evolve by adopting a level of unconsciousness that demands i feel the least bit indebted or respectful of those who surrender their own self-detirmination.  that is a massive guilt construct in service to corporations and the 1% and i will not run that guilt energy through my body.

        i honor those who refused orders in an imperialist war.  i honor those who left the country, and who fought against that war from other countries.  i do not honor mccain for dropping bombs on the vietnamese people.  i think that makes him a monster.

        Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Apr 19, 2012 at 09:19:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thank you (4+ / 0-)

          for this explanation. I understand what you are saying.

          To clarify my position, I would not honor or admire or celebrate McCain's service, but I would still respect it. God knows that politicians can lie us into screwy wars, and there are a lot of young kids who sign up with the best intentions. On the other hand, it does take a lot of guts to be a dissenter. Anyway, for me, my position means not bringing McCain's service into the political theater at all - I'm not going to bash him for it, but neither am I going to pretend that he's some kind of hero we need to worship.

          •  gotcha. and i could go on, except that i'm about (6+ / 0-)

            to turn in.  it takes guts to be a dissenter when you're the lone figure doing it, and there is no cultural support, or actual institutions to help resisters.  that's true.  but swallowing whole the 'honor the warrior'  meme will never allow any other culture to take hold: it's orwellian.

            i would support not bringing anyone's military service into the political arena. it's atavistic, it's not a way forward, to embed the warrior as a necessary archetype in the society and a form of leadership.  

            Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

            by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Apr 19, 2012 at 10:26:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You bring up many important points (4+ / 0-)

              that we should all take time to consider. Glorifying the warrior just for its own sake is, as you point out, pretty stupid and destructive. Sadly, it is part of our culture. I have been lucky enough to live other places (like Sweden) where that is just not the case - and it was really enlightening to be in a culture where there is no enemy du jour, no glorification of war. Also, I'm female, so the whole fighting to solve problems thing just doesn't compute for me.

              So yay, we can say we won in Vietnam or Iraq or whatever, but I tend to see the micro picture... I work in public schools so I know, just as one example, the mom of 4 kids now about to fall apart because her husband was blown up in Iraq. She is only one of thousands with similar stories. I don't see much to celebrate in that. I also have a much-adored BIL serving in the Middle East right now, and I worry for him, his wife, and kids every day. He joined the Army to protect his country (to which his parents were immigrants), and I have nothing but disdain for the evil, self-serving forces (I'm looking at you, Bush and Cheney and all your hawk pals) who got him and everyone else over there. I guess I'm so busy hating the warmongers that I don't have much energy left to hold against their pawns.

      •  I suspose something to admire is (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        samddobermann, semiot

        crashing 5 of our very expensive military jets and surviving them all!

        There aren't too many out there who can say that about themselves.

        •  OK, maybe that was a low blow (0+ / 0-)

          especially considering that the esteemed Washington Post factchecker site claims that two of the crashes were not entirely his fault.  At least not to this extent:

          In his autobiography, McCain recalls another mishap around December 1961 when "I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident."
          link

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