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View Diary: BREAKING: Zimmerman Bloody Photo emerges...Murder 2 in doubt? (331 comments)

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  •  Zimmermen got out of his car (4+ / 0-)

    to follow Martin, but lost sight of him. We know that from his 911 call.

    There was later a confrontation, followed by violence.

    I do not know who initiated the confrontation. (which itself is not a criminal act)

    I do not know who initiated the violence. (which is)

    •  We know (8+ / 0-)

      The person who initiate teh confrontation was the person who ensured the confrontation occurred by following Trayvon Martin for no damn legitimate reason.

      The End.

      •  I can follow someone (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peregrinus

        without initiating a confrontation.

        Following does not necessarily lead to confrontation.

        the end

      •  a confrontation is not violence (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lovelyone

        There is no crime in asking someone, even testily: "Who the hell are you?" Or "What the hell are you following me for?" Or "What the hell are you doing here?" None of those are crimes. People can get angry about them, they can get angry they are being racially targeted, they can be afraid or suspicious, they can call the police, they can photograph the person, they can ask for his identity, they can file a complaint about him, etc. Confrontations are not crimes.

        There is usually a crime in physically attacking someone. But sometimes it can be impossible to determine who initiates the physical conflict (barring a sucker-punch) -- did they get close, puff themselves up, scowl, glare, glower, utter threats, clench fists, circle each other, push, etc.? Those can all happen within 1-2 seconds, and even if it were on camera sometimes there is no such thing as 'throwing the first punch'.

        There is (almost always) a crime in pulling a gun on someone.

        There is a crime in shooting someone (assuming you're not in imminent danger).

        My instinct based on what I've read and seen is that Zimmerman committed a crime and should be prosecuted for it in a court of law, as is happening.

        But I'm disturbed by the vigilante attitudes displayed throughout dKos diaries on this, and the attacks on those who call for procedural justice. It reminds me of the swarm to deny that Anthony Weiner tweeted pics of his crotch, and to attack those who were looking for facts. In the long run, that undermines the reputation of dKos and Democrats (not just that of the vigilantes). We're better than that.

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