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View Diary: BREAKING: Zimmerman Bloody Photo emerges...Murder 2 in doubt? (331 comments)

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  •  Definitely not correct. (6+ / 0-)

    Zimmerman had a permit to carry that gun.  

    The fact that he was walking around with a gun is not proof of anything.  

    If the prosecution can prove that he used the gun to threaten Martin before the physical altercation started, THAT would matter.  But the fact that Zimmerman had a gun with him proves pretty much nothing.  

    •  that he unholstered his gun shows intent (0+ / 0-)

      He had a choice to walk away or to not even start this confrontation.  The so-called "Stand Your Ground" law doesn't apply here EXCEPT possibly on behalf of Trayvon Martin who after being pursued by a nosy prick, even after worrying about being stalked (documented), he stands his own ground.  

      --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

      by chipoliwog on Fri Apr 20, 2012 at 12:06:24 PM PDT

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      •  That depends. (0+ / 0-)

        When did Zimmerman unholster  his gun? Was it before or after Zimmerman sustained injury?  Basically, how did Zimmerman's following Martin turn into a physical confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin? I think those are where the facts will be disputed. And the prosecution needs admissible evidence as proof of what they say happened.

        •  He initiated the conflict (0+ / 0-)

          He has no justification for "standing his ground".  He was instructed to stop pursuing this boy.  

          --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

          by chipoliwog on Fri Apr 20, 2012 at 02:13:24 PM PDT

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          •  How did he do that? (0+ / 0-)

            We know he followed Martin.  That is not a physical altercation.  Either (1) Zimmerman had to do something ELSE, like throw a punch at Martin or overtly threaten Martin, and Zimmerman's actions along those lines initiated the physical altercation, as many here theorize; or (2) Martin saw him following, and Martin turned and started the physical altercation that resulted in Martin being on top of Zimmerman banging his head on the ground, as Zimmerman's supporters allege.  

            In the first instance, the prosecution's case is stronger.  In the second instance, Zimmerman's self-defense claim is stronger (following Martin at some distance -- he was not inches away, as far as I know -- does not provide legal justification for Martin to initiate a physical altercation).

            It's going to depend what admissible evidence the prosecution has to prove their case.  

            •  stalking someone is a form of assault (0+ / 0-)

              Just like brandishing a gun (at paparazzi) which has recently gotten the sister of a British Royal in serious trouble with the law in France. (simply by being an unwitting accomplice)

              Assault does not always mean a physical altercation. It can be menacing, stalking, and verbal threats of physical harm.  

              We have evidence that Martin was in reasonable fear of his safety and he was prepared to STAND HIS GROUND.

              --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

              by chipoliwog on Fri Apr 20, 2012 at 02:31:49 PM PDT

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              •  It depends (0+ / 0-)

                walking behind someone on a public sidewalk is not assault.

                Following someone on a public sidewalk is not assault.

                Following them on a public sidewalk AND threatening them, pointing a gun at them, that kind of thing -- that's assault.  It's the second part -- the threats, the pointing a gun, the swinging at somebody, that kind of thing -- that makes the assault.  

                If the prosecution has admissible evidence that, in addition to following Martin, Zimmerman ALSO verbally threatened him, or pointed his gun at him, or something like that, they have a much stronger case.  

                •  oh please! (0+ / 0-)

                  On a crowded street going in the same direction as someone else is not stalking per se but could be.  Like this incident on the New York Subway:

                  On a private street to be followed by a car then the car's occupant exits and follows you, THAT'S STALKING.

                  And here's what Erin Brockovich has to say about stalking:

                  --Mr. President, you have to earn my vote every day. Not take it for granted. --

                  by chipoliwog on Fri Apr 20, 2012 at 02:47:25 PM PDT

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