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View Diary: Monsanto Buys Out Leading Bee Research Firm (163 comments)

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  •  Um, yeah, actually. (13+ / 0-)

    Where, in the entire debate around Colony Collapse Disorder, has anyone ever said anything about killing bees by killing plants from which they might otherwise have gotten pollen?

    No one.

    The issue is whether certain pesticides (not herbicides) are killing bees, or weakening their immune systems enough that normally tolerated environmental factors kill them.

    Calling an herbicide "bee killing", unless it actually kills bees, is wrong, muddies the arguments we're trying to make, and confuses people.  You have link(s) to show that Roundup actually kills bees (as opposed to just plants)?  Post 'em.

    The road to Hell is paved with pragmatism.

    by TheOrchid on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 09:43:33 AM PDT

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    •  You haven't thought this through I see. (0+ / 0-)

      If the Bees are gathering pollen from genetically modified crops, then the pollen is genetically modified.

      Most of GM crops have terminator genes, ie., they don't produce seeds that can be planted.

      You do the math.

      •  This may be the weirdest argument I've seen... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gatorcog, sagesource

        ... at least in this millennium.

        Your logic flow seems to be:

        • Bees gather pollen from GM crops.
        • Many GM crops have genetic damage so that they don't product fertile seeds.
        • Therefore, bees die.

        To which I reply:  Whut?  The bees are dying, not simply not breeding well.  Dead bees are found.  And the genes in your food don't mingle with your own genes - you have no chance of becoming a radish monster, no matter how many radishes you eat.

        So, doing the math:

        1 + 1 = 2i

        Where i is the representation of the square root of negative one, making the value 2i into the type of number known as an irrational number.

        How can Obama's administration have failed if everyone who is unemployed only has themselves to blame?

        by Laughing Vergil on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 12:54:27 PM PDT

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        •  Imaginary number. (3+ / 0-)

          Not picking sides, just lending aid to a poor defenseless class of numbers...

        •  The pollen is modified as well. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrkvica, gerrilea, opinionated, DuzT

          So is the nectar. The terminator gene alters the sexual parts of the flowers on food. Most of this stuff is also Roundup ready, meaning that it has been modified to not be affected by Roundup and a lot of varieties are modified to not be affected by pests. What would keep pests away? Some sort of toxin or the pests don't recognize the plant for what it is?

          I don't like the idea of fish genes being spliced onto my tomatoes or whatever other weird combo Monsanto comes up with. You may think it doesn't make a difference, but it does. High fructose corn syrup is not the same thing as simple corn sugar, which isn't the same thing as cane sugar. Your pancreas doesn't recognize it, can't produce the enzymes to digest it and it doesn't trigger any fullness after having eaten it. Same goes for all the molecular modifications of sugar like aspertame. So I won't turn into a radish, but my food is messed up and my cells can break down.

          I'm not ok with it.

    •  Dude, you're confusing the word "pesticide" with (13+ / 0-)

      "insecticide", which, along with "herbicide", is a class of "pesticide".

      As an organic farmer for almost 30 years, I can assure you that all classes of pesticides exert pressure, in a variety of complex ways, on bees and other beneficial insects, whether "targets" or not.  Entire ecosystems are upended.  I invite you to stand beside a thousand acre field that was once alive with an unimaginable variety (which, as Gene Logsdon so succinctly points out, ". . . is not the spice of life, it is the key to life!"), one that you've seen while still alive, and revisit it one week after being "treated" with Roundup.  Then you'll get it, I promise.  

      •  well said farmerhunt n/t (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KenBee, gerrilea, Larsstephens

        America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

        by cacamp on Tue Apr 24, 2012 at 04:11:02 PM PDT

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      •  I AM Confused By Your Logic... (0+ / 0-)

        Are you saying that by killing the so called "weeds" with roundup, the act of eliminating the so called "weeds" harms the bees because the bees no longer have the "weeds" for a food source?

        If this is true, how did the bees survive the 150 years from 1800 to 1950 when people chopped cotton by hand?  No pesticides were used, but millions of acres of fields were kept as close to a desert as possible to get the largest cotton crop possible.

        Surely during your 30 years as an organic farmer you tried to keep the weeds out of your garden, I do.

      •  Killing things we don't like is a really (0+ / 0-)

        bad habit.  We should only kill what we are willing to eat.

        Fear leads people to kill first and ask questions later. We should get over our fears.

        People to Wall Street: "LET OUR MONEY GO"

        by hannah on Wed Apr 25, 2012 at 02:26:44 AM PDT

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