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View Diary: Elie Wiesel Suffered Incomprehensibly, Haley. Mitt Didn't. Knock it Off. (114 comments)

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  •  That really belittles what Jews went through (14+ / 0-)

    during the Holocaust by claiming it was a crime against everyone. It wasn't.  6mm Jews were targeted and massacred during the Holocaust. Yes, others were killed during the Holocaust, but Jews were the ones almost wiped off the planet. Statements like yours are what Holocaust deniers use to claim that Jews weren't targeted by Nazis.

    President Obama at Madison Rally 9/28/2010 - "Change is not a spectator sport."

    by askew on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 05:34:20 PM PDT

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    •  Completely Agree (6+ / 0-)

      There were peoples who were SPECIFICALLY targeted and systematically terrorized, victimized, exploited and killed. To say it was a crime against all of humanity completely misses the point. The nazis didn't put out the same effort to exterminate everyone of Norwegian descent, for example.

      In a democracy dissent is an act of faith. Like medicine, the test of its value is not in its taste, but in its effects. J. William Fulbright

      by crescentdave on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 08:03:17 PM PDT

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    •  The Nazis killed everyone they could get their (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      USMarine70, elwior, NonnyO, ivorybill

      unspeakable racist homophobic bigoted hands on that didn't fit their perverse ideas of what the world should look like. Unfortunately, there were 6 million jews within range of their murderous ambitions and the rest of the world shamefully did so little to help them escape the Nazi murder machine. That being said, did the Nazis not murder Poles and Roma etc. as enthusiastically? Reminding people that the Jews were a major target but not the only target of the Nazis doesn't diminish the horror of Nazism and what was done to the Jews, it emphasizes how monstrous, crazy, totally evil and unjustified were the mass murders perpetrated by the Nazis.

      "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens," -Friedrich Schiller "Against Stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain"

      by pengiep on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 08:03:30 PM PDT

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    •  I have to agree. (7+ / 0-)

      Antisemitism is centuries old and because it wasn't eradicated but instead perpetuated by bigots over the ages, 6 million JEWISH PEOPLE died in the 20th century.

      My own brother was talking some antisemitism bullshit to me. I threatened physical violence because I'm fully aware that's how "Jews ended up in showers that turned out not to be showers"---paging Woody Allen.

      "It's not enough to acknowledge privilege. You have to resist." -soothsayer

      by GenXangster on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 08:20:40 PM PDT

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    •  Yes, but they killed at least 5M non-Jews as well (0+ / 0-)

      Yes, but they killed at least 5M non-Jews as well. Israel doesn't have a monopoly on the holocaust. (Not that anybody said anything about Israel. I just thought I'd make the point for some reason.)

      Also, if I recall, Weisel's politics are, well interesting, and not terribly compatible with most of what's on this website. He's rather a neo-con hero, strangely enough. Or was...

      "just give me some truth" --John Lennon

      by vernon nackulus on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 11:07:12 PM PDT

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    •  Well wait (6+ / 0-)

      I can't remember which Holocaust documentary I was watching but I do remember when they talked about Auschwitz they said every single ethnic group on the planet was incarcerated there. Including, they said Eskimos.
         Everyone with any sense at all knows how close they came to murdering, every single Jew in Europe and Asia.
         But there are people who don't understand how vast their contempt for anyone who wasn't Aryan was.
         Lets not forget that if an allied or American troop or squad or what have you was taken prisoner they asked for all the Jews to take a step forward. If they didn't everyone was sent to a concentration camp. If you were black you were sent there as a matter of course.
        I do not think knowing this and speaking about it diminishes one bit the suffering Jews went through. In fact I believe it puts an exclamation point on it.
        They did come for all of us.

         I have been fortunate to travel to great places in my life.
         I've been to Israel and walked the Via Dellorosa. I've been to the place where Jesus was taken after he was taken off the cross.
         I've been to the Church in Cairo where Mary, Joseph and Jesus hid from Herod.
         But a memory I have is something I never could have expected.
         I was in Holland, Amsterdam, on vacation with my mom. The first day she went her way and I went mine. I was just meandering through the streets planning out what I was going to do each day I was there. I said tomorrow I'll go to Anne Frank's hideout, the next day I'll go to the Rembrandt museum and so on.
         I wanted to see a canal so I turned a corner and walked down a street. As I was walking I thought to myself, this looks familiar. How can this be familiar? I've never been to Amsterdam before. I started walking some more then in a flash it dawned on me. I remembered from the old black and white movie The Diary of Anne Frank they showed this road. I said to myself I must be close to Anne frank's hideout. I walked down some more and I saw a bunch of people standing in line.
         And there it was the hideout.
         I said well since I'm here, I'll see this now.
         As you walk through you see everything just how it is described in the diary, nothing is changed even the pictures on the wall. When you wonder through each room you see people starting to cry but I didn't cry then.
         After you go through the whole hideout you are sort of led off to a huge room where they have the diary in every language from every country. And that's when I and a young man who was right beside me started to cry. We didn't talk to each other we just looked at each other and cried.
         I cried because it's triumph over evil. They did not win and Anne lives on past her age and past her life.
         And it also shows a respect for different peoples of all countries, of all ethnic groups and all religious persuasions.
         And it's about freedom of the written word to teach people what a great evil would not have you know existed.
         To suppress any part of this story is not helpful.

         The next day I went to the Heinekin Brewery. Interesting fact the admittance fee is all donated to charity. And after you take the tour you get to drink free beer for 45 minutes.

       

      "Herring and oranges, herring and oranges, anyone?" (sigh) "Turnips and anchovies?" (sigh) "Coffee?" Nellgwen

      by nellgwen on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 11:37:26 PM PDT

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    •  Well...For some it might (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, NonnyO, ivorybill

      But I share inclusiveheart's interpretation.
      Yes Jew were targeted in the order of 6 – 8 million. Yes Roma were targeted, homosexuals were targeted and other ethinicities and affiliations were singled out and destroyed. But all these victims shared one thing in common: they were human beings who had just as much right to life as any other.
      It goes without saying that Jews were systematically and viciously eradicated from most corners of Europe for the purported “crime” of being Jewish. And others too, as noted above, were targeted for no other reason than the community to which they belonged. Yet if we are to truly appreciate the lesson of the Holocaust, if we are truly prepared to honour the memory of it’s victims, then we say: NEVER AGAIN! Never again will we sit idle while a people are slaughtered. Never again will we allow hate to propogate against a people. Never again will we allow genocide to happen.
      To me it is a disservice to memory of the Holocaust when we strive to label it as Jewish victimization rather than a crime committed against individuals because they were Jewish, Roma, gay or otherwise. Each victim of the Holocaust was denied their individuality and consigned to their fate regardless of their character.If we fail to recognize this, we open ourselves to repeat it.    

      If I wanted an uninformed opinion, I'd ask Sarah Palin.

      by Visionseeker on Fri Apr 27, 2012 at 11:48:29 PM PDT

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    •  I would hope that taking as much offense (0+ / 0-)

      when someone of another race, creed or color is assaulted as I would were it me, would be considered a good thing in your mind.

      The primary objective of memorializing the Holocaust was to create awareness for all human beings of the horrors of genocide and persecution.  The Holocaust Museum in DC poignantly acknowledges the genocide of the Armenians in the early 20th Century - a genocide that is thought to have been a precursor to what Hitler and the Nazis achieved on a much grander scale.

      I tend to think that having everyone invested in preventing genocide is a very good idea; and that anyone who thinks that their particular race will never suffer similarly is a fool.  If one only thinks of these crimes against humanity as assaults on specific races, creeds, etc., then the point that we are ALL responsible can be missed.  Antisemitism easily becomes a rationalization rather than a anathema and insult to all people.  "Because they were Jewish" becomes more of an excuse than a concept that should be viewed critically as being outrageous and objectionable on its face as a reason for pretty much anything.

      In any case, the Nazis killed many kinds of people.  They were particularly effective at killing Jewish people in much higher numbers, but that was because too many people were able to see that population as "the other" for too long.  Had more people viewed that population as just people who should never be persecuted for simply being born into their religion and race, then I think that it is safe to say that the Nazis would never have been as successful as they were.

      Unfortunately, we all "own" the Holocaust and we all should carry the weight and sense of sorrow for that tragic loss of lives.  We all also own the fact that human beings are too easily manipulated through lies about threats that people who are not like us pose and that if we aren't vigilant about looking at other people as if they might be us - even if they are not a perfect reflection of ourselves and our personal values - we will continue to fall prey to these manipulations and more people will be needlessly victimized.

      I hope that I honor the victims of all of the past genocides by persisting in my view that they are me and I am them and we should not be unbound by the likes of anyone who seeks to divide the human race and derail us from peace and the potential for full and productive lives.

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