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View Diary: Cleveland DJ apologizes for suggesting father "screw your daughter straight" (74 comments)

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  •  To me (6+ / 0-)

    "Have one of your friends screw her straight" does not conjure images of courting and seduction. It conjures images of having sex with her against her will and showing her how wonderful penises are. Just taking the words that came out of his mouth into consideration, I do not believe he meant seduction.

    Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

    by Chrislove on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 05:08:14 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  there would be different words than 'screw' (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chrislove

      if courtship and seduction were intended.  

      Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 05:17:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)

        "Screw" is, by itself, a pretty violent word.

        Homosexuality is found in over 450 species. Homophobia is found in only one. Which one seems unnatural now?

        by Chrislove on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 05:19:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  also, a mechanical word. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Chrislove

          if used at all it should be between lovers of longstanding, it seems to me.

          Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

          by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 05:25:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The issue at hand is not etiquette (0+ / 0-)

            it's whether he was using the word "screw" to mean "rape"!  I think that you have to give someone the benefit of the doubt there.

            If he had said, "tie her down," "hold her down," "spike her drink," or anything like that, I'd agree with you.  But he didn't.

            Democrats must
            Earn the trust
            Of the 99% --
            That's our intent!

            "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

            by Seneca Doane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 06:26:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Seneca... we're talking about a female child here (4+ / 0-)

              who was kissing a (girl)friend which resulted in advice to her father to have one of his adult friends... older geezer guys his age... screw his daughter straight.

              Not sure how the hell you are getting off the rails with this one.

              Daughter kissed a girl ergo

              advice to dad to get an adult male friend of his and

              have the adult male screw the underage daughter until

              girl-kissing teen-daughter is now straight

              as a result of said screw by older friend of dad's.

              •  bronte, I'm not defending the homophobia (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                lostboyjim

                and I'm not defending it from a charge of statutory rape -- if one presumes that he was saying "do this now" as opposed to "at some time in the future."

                I'm addressing one thing: "did he say that the daughter should be raped?"

                Let's say that he had said this -- none of which contradicts what he did say:

                Tell ya what, dude -- wait until she's 18, then hire some good lookin' older guy to go after her with candy and flowers and end up screwin' her for a month -- then she sure won't be some lesbian!  Haw-haw!
                Would that be offensive?  Yes.

                Would that be homophobic?  Yes.

                Would that be misogynistic?  I'd say so.

                Would that be advocating rape?  No.

                Advocating rape is a whole different level of evil than even homophobia and misogyny.  Before I accept that someone said it, I want to be sure that they actually said it.  I don't think that you can get there, in this case, without inferences that aren't strictly warranted.

                Given that we're talking about a campaign here to get someone fired, yes I'm going to make sure that we're actually right about the charge.

                Democrats must
                Earn the trust
                Of the 99% --
                That's our intent!

                "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

                by Seneca Doane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 07:54:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Seneca... please realize that the word rape (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Chrislove, JVolvo, Avilyn

                  is not even in the mind of many men who do indeed commit rape. But, they don't see their actions as rape.

                  For example, the "virginity tests" done on female protesters in the Middle East by "religious authorities" simply because women had the nerve to speak up for a better future.

                  Any number of men consider those virginity tests normal and the word rape would never cross their minds. But, it is rape.

                  As for your time shift framing of the advice... into the future when the daughter would conveniently be of legal age for an older man to screw her straight... that is a slight of hand to remove the criminality inherent in our cultural and legal system. And it still does not absolve the atrocious advice nor resolve the core issues at the heart of this.

      •  You know, I'm not talking candy and flowers (0+ / 0-)

        when I say "seduction" -- I just mean sweet-talking someone into sex on their own volition.

        I think that you're wrong about the word "screw," and so does Jimmy Buffett.

        Democrats must
        Earn the trust
        Of the 99% --
        That's our intent!

        "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

        by Seneca Doane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 06:25:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  oh, well, jimmy buffet! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pandoras Box, JVolvo

          he's always my go-to guy for elucidation on the delicate dance between the sexes.  not.

          Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

          by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 06:43:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You're engaging in wishful thinking Seneca (4+ / 0-)

          and Jimmy Buffett was talking about grown women and drinking and fun.

          Between adults.

          Consenting adults.

          Not about a young teen who is exploring life and her dad thinks his daughter is doing something wrong.

          So, he asks on friggin' talk radio how to fix her when there is nothing wrong with her.  

          And he's told to get an old guy to screw that child straight.

          It's reprehensible.

          On many levels.

          •  You're right, it's reprehensible on many levels (0+ / 0-)

            Please read my other comments here.  I've consistently said so.

            My concern is simply whether -- putting aside her legal inability as a minor to give consent -- the guy was advocating forcible rape.

            That's different from -- and way beyond -- simply being reprehensible.  You and I don't disagree about it being reprehensible.  But was it advocating forcible rape?

            (Technically, it was advocating rape, because of statutory rape laws, but society rightly treats statutory rape of a consenting minor (at least beyond a certain age) as being in a different category from violent rape.  I mean advocating forcible rape.)

            Democrats must
            Earn the trust
            Of the 99% --
            That's our intent!

            "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

            by Seneca Doane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 08:00:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  sigh... how many different angles and variations (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              JVolvo

              can humanity design with the intent to subjugate women? And always it begins with control of our bodies. Cave-blanketed from head to toe and still even our very eyes are too wicked and "ask for it."

              Why should it matter whether it was just statutory rape... or violent forcible rape?

              Or whether the daughter was 15 or 19. The advice was still that the daughter was bad and the father has the right to inflict horrible actions upon her by virtue of his warped sense of morality and presumed right to control experiences affecting her.

              Medieval and primitive Neanderthal response to a young woman's coming of age and learning the beauty of life. And these men turn it into something very ugly and crush the flowering of her soul.

              And I know you have your lawyer's hat on with this Seneca.

              •  You're saying it's homophobic and misogynistic (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bronte17

                and aggravated assholery -- and I agree with all that.

                You're right that I have my lawyer's hat on, but it's not because I want to quibble.  It's because I think that when we start to say that someone has advocating raping a child, it should be the case that that person has really done so.  Guilty of A, B, and C, does not necessarily mean guilty of (even more abominable) D.  Charges should not be thrown around loosely.  We would not, on the evidence at hand, call him a "murderer" (even though young women have been killed in the process of rapes or have killed themselves as a result of them.)  If we did, we would undermine our credibility.  Our collective credibility is important to me.

                So, yeah, I'm scrupulous about such charges.  So sue me!  ;7)

                Democrats must
                Earn the trust
                Of the 99% --
                That's our intent!

                "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

                by Seneca Doane on Tue May 01, 2012 at 12:42:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  I think that that's what you bring to it (0+ / 0-)

      (and to the extent that the obvious homophobia is pissing you off, no wonder.  He's a complete asshole when it comes to his homophobia.)

      But as a straight guy, I think it can easily be read either way.  I'm not sure what interpretation I'd lean towards.  To me this is a matter of my wanting to get "beyond reasonable doubt" before "convicting" someone of literally one of the worst things one could say -- and trying to get him fired as a result of it.

      "Screw" is just how some people talk.

      Democrats must
      Earn the trust
      Of the 99% --
      That's our intent!

      "I love this goddamn country, and we're going to take it back." -- Saul Alinsky OCcupy!

      by Seneca Doane on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 06:22:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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