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View Diary: Occupy Oakland's May Day: We are not the 99%. (153 comments)

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  •  I'm sorry (1+ / 0-)
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    Arilca Mockingbird

    Maybe I shouldn't be so emotional, but honestly, I have watched the support of everyone in my working day world just back away because of these children who vandalize in the name of Occupy.  Seriously...just about everyone.  Oh, we all want to fight for the working person, but not if it means getting caught up in vandalism against out friends and business associates.    It makes me emotional.  I pisses me off.  I am watching what could be the awakening of America being washed down the drain by a couple of stupid kids who think V for Vendetta was like the best move evah.

    •  What's ruining the community is the war on drugs (0+ / 0-)

      and poverty and police violence. Some broken windows are a minor thing compared to that.  I do understand this being an emotional issue, it's important and people get emotional about important things.  It's good to remember that the people who are breaking windows are emotional about this stuff too.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Wed May 02, 2012 at 11:28:35 PM PDT

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      •  Yes, but (1+ / 0-)
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        and this is a big but....Breaking windows DOES NOT HELP.  It hurts us.  Really.  It hurts our image, it hurts our message, it hurts our community, it hurts our future.  Breaking windows hurts far more than any supposed message it is trying to convey.

        •  I don't know that I believe that anymore (1+ / 0-)
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          I hear people repeat it and repeat it and repeat it and then I see the beating of peaceful protesters ignored by the public and the media.  I see the public ignore movements the more the police attack them.  I see people who dress so they will be protected from police batons and arrest attacked as cowards because they wear a mask.  I see police that have done so much damage for so fucking long get away with it scot fucking free and then these protests happen and some broken windows are the worst thing in the world.

          Either way, I'm not going to be able to do anything in regards to stopping people from breaking windows in Oakland, I'm stuck out of town for a bit while I get my shit together.  But in practical terms there's no way that OO is going to denounce vandalism as violence, there are just too many people that would disagree.

          There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Wed May 02, 2012 at 11:45:41 PM PDT

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          •  People are seeing the police brutality, really (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mic check oakland

            People are seeing it...I've had countless conversations with people in downtown Oakland about the police abuses.  People are shocked and supportive.  Its not so much in the media, but you know the people of Oakland.  We are not stupid.  We know what is going on.  But, breaking windows of innocent businesses just really pits the very people OO needs against the movement.  They hate the police violence, but on the other hand, they don't want what happened to Foot Locker to happen to them.  Hell, even the Tully's Coffee Shop ended up suffering when the owner of that shop had gone way above and beyond to support the movement and the original Oakland Commune.

            Thanks for talking.  I appreciate your perspective.  While we don't agree on some things, I do listen and learn from you and appreciate your opinions.

            •  And that's the other part of it (3+ / 0-)

              people do see it, and I know they especially do in Oakland, but that didn't seem to help anything.  The police haven't changed.  No one except for the federal monitors has even discussed doing anything about the police.  Of course, breaking windows doesn't help this, you're right.  But when every single remotely aggressive tactic is denounced often enough, although not always by the same people, then they really start to all look the same.  Why should the folks breaking windows because people are telling them not to when people use the exact same argument for that as they do when people march in the street or confront the police when attacked.  There is a large group of people who just shout "MLK" and "Gandhi" at you, metaphorically most of the time but occasionally literally, ant time you discuss even remotely militant tactics.  

              This is what I was talking about in my comment earlier discussing the need for the left to actually communicate instead of the moderates ignoring the far left until they break some windows or do something crazy.  These discussions around diversity of tactics have been going on for over a decade and then someone like Hedges steps in a turns it into a dirty word.  Anarchists and leftists are getting purged from Occupations in various parts of the country because of that shit.  And no one ever mentions that it has always been a way to keep the peace between different groups.  I mean, I don't see anarchists attacking people for voting, when they have a voice at all, despite the fact that they oppose it on principal.  None of which to say there isn't a place for criticism, we have to be able to criticize, but just going up to people and yelling at them that voting is a waste of time and gives legitimacy to a corrupt system doesn't get us anywhere.  And until now that's been the conversation around breaking windows, for the most part, people berating anarchists because there were broken windows and you know Gandhi.

              There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

              by AoT on Thu May 03, 2012 at 12:13:10 AM PDT

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              •  Im so sorry... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AoT, Arilca Mockingbird

                I just have to go to bed.  I really want to carry on the discussion, but I just can't.  Feel free to Kosmail me, and should you be in the area, I'd be happy to meet up for coffee and talk.

                All I can say quickly is the police in Oakland are not going to change over night.  That they have come under federal scrutiny is just the beginning.  The systemic corruption and violence is just the tip of the iceberg and I doubt, being the cynic that I am, we will ever see the whole picture.  The fact that it became clear that the NYC police were and are being hired as private mercenaries for high paying business interests should make it clear that we no longer have a non-biased police force in America.

                •  I didn't even notice the time (0+ / 0-)

                  Have a good night.  We can continue this later.

                  There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                  by AoT on Thu May 03, 2012 at 12:30:54 AM PDT

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