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View Diary: Friendly Advice to CNN -- Change Everything (230 comments)

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  •  Except in every poll on almost every (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wasatch, elwior, BYw, cslewis

    issue available. You've really not seen majorities wanting out of war, okay with gay marriage, thinking our government is corrupted, that Big Money has too much say in our politics, that Austerity is wrong, taxing the rich is right, Big Oil is crooked business, Congress doesn't represent us, our political class is out of touch, etc etc etc etc etc etc?

    And all this without media or politicians stoking it, like they do fear and trivialities.

    I know there are people who think the people in general are just plain stupid, not just ill-formed and distracted, but in that case I don't see how such people can be subscribe to being democrats.

    The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

    by Jim P on Wed May 02, 2012 at 11:17:42 PM PDT

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    •  it does not matter what majorities SAY they want (0+ / 0-)

      when they do not VOTE along with what they believe.

      sure i've seen those majorities.  they are great news.  but by themselves they mean nothing, for two reasons.

      (1) there are people who believe in all of those things you listed who will still vote Republicon: because their pastor told them Democrats are sinners for supporting abortion care, because Fakes News told them Democrats are like Hitler, because their friend down the street said Obama was born in Kenya, or because there's nothing but hateradio in their area 24-7 and they just can't bring themselves to join the Blue Team because everyone else they know is on the Red Team.

      These people do not pay as much attention to politics on a policy level.  They interact with politics on a surface level.  They pick up broad messages from sound bites.  They may want their college age daughter on their health care plan until 26, but have no idea that Obamacare provides that, because everyone they know talks about the lie that Obamacare will force the government to choose their doctor.  This is what we are up against.  This is where the biggest battle is.


      (2) there are people who believe in all of those things you listed who are going to vote third party, or stay home, or only vote downticket, because Obama hasn't done enough fast enough about: the war in Afghanistan, reversing DOMA, putting Bush and Cheney behind bars, ending corporate influence in politics, arm-twisting to get conservative votes in Congress, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

      this second and equally critical battle is among people who are angry that Obama went to Harvard instead of Hogwarts.  they are upset that O did not manage to clean up the mess of the last 30+ years in the last three years over unprecedented opposition.  So they won't donate and volunteer and blog and call and GOTV at the same level they did in 2008 because they are so disappointed.

      Bottom line: it does not matter what issues people say they support in polls.  They have to realize that it is the Democratic party that supports the things they are for and they have to turn out and VOTE for the blue team.

      Here's where I agree with you: if people vote their agreement with us on the issues, we will win in a landslide, hold the Senate, and take back the House.

      But right now the evidence does not point that way.  There are still millions of people planning to vote AGAINST their own best interests, against the things they tell pollsters they are for, and against the "scary socialist snobby Nazi Kenyan Muslim black Democratic President".

      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

      by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 03, 2012 at 08:03:33 AM PDT

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      •  But they do vote. See 2008.You gotta convince them (0+ / 0-)

        they have a reason to vote for the candidates offered.

        That's why you sink the entire "scary socialist etc" scenario with "The Banks are robbing you, and I"m going to stop it." "The Wars are breaking our backs and we're going to end them" instead of listing insider political horseshit that nobody in the general public really gives two shits about.

        Give up on the attitude that people are stupid and contemptible. It's just plain wrong. It's the political class and the very very very narrow range of what they consider "smart" which is fucking us over in the elections.

        Seriously, our political system is severely fucked up. How do you go to the voters and not acknowledge that to them, and then expect them to turn out?

        Right now nobody running for office is talking about the things which preoccupy the daily lives and concerns of 2/3 the voters.

        You want to win, give up trying to manipulate public perceptions; deliver something, some fucking clue, that what the people need, we will address.

        Without that, it's not only the President who is vulnerable (when there's absolutely no need for that) the entire down-ticket suffers when the voters don't come out because none of them really give a shit about the Official Political Conventions which everyone with half the brains they were born with knows are nothing but manipulations.

        The people aren't stupid. The politicians are just not willing to bite the hand that feeds them. People know that, so they don't turn out. That gives Republicans majorities. Why would anyone support that if they want Democrats to win?

        As to your comment:

        They have to realize that it is the Democratic party that supports the things they are for and they have to turn out and VOTE for the blue team.
        Show me. Where's the Democratic candidate saying
        "I'm not taking bankers money, so I can serve you and not be beholden to them."

        "The Wars are killing us, and we're going into debt to China just to fight them, we need to stop twitching at every possible enemy everywhere."

        "We're going to tax the hell out of people who send good American jobs overseas."

        "We're going to tax the hell out of speculative trading, and people who prefer to invest in that rather than brick-and-mortar business in the US."

        "We're going to get off foreign energy, and the wars it leads us to, by having an Apollo program to match Germany Spain Italy China etc in their plan to have 20% renewables by 2020."

        "We're going to stop the destruction of the middle class."

        "We're going to stop government and business poking into your daily life; stop treating everyone in America as if they are suspects; stop treating opposition voices as if the are terrorists."

        Where? Where? Where?

        Nowhere. Do you want to win elections? Who's running on what the American people want? Yes, they want to avoid something much much worse in Republicans, but that doesn't really enthuse anyone. 2008 Change enthused people. But we've got the status quo still.

        The Bankers are still fucking everyone over. I mean, we've got a fucking drug war which turns double-digit percentages of African American males into felons, while Bankers are making settlements paying less than 1% penalty on their drug money laundering profits, and no criminal charges. Who's out there in our Party saying this is wrong?

        The wars are still bankrupting us. The jobs are still being exported. The trade agreements are still being created and sustained.

        You think people haven't noticed?

        Okay, things take time, inertia, sure. But where's the sense that things are being guided to fix these many things eventually?

        Doesn't exist. No plan to get us out of this mess, no vision. Have that, and you win by landslides. Don't and you maybe squeak by on the Presidency, and still have insufficient majorities (if any) in the Chambers.

        That's just the real world. "Better than Republicans" ain't gonna win shit by itself.

        Your "the voters have to realize" is the flaw in your thinking. What's the plan? Browbeat them with how stupid they are, and they'll turn out in droves? Seriously? Not very pragramatic, is it.

        No no no no. It's "the politicians have to realize" that the voters don't buy their shit, and they ain't offering anything to get the voters flocking to them. That's the reality in these United States. Like it or not.

        The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

        by Jim P on Thu May 03, 2012 at 01:32:52 PM PDT

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        •  you are moving the goal posts now (0+ / 0-)

          first you claimed that just reporting the truth would be enough to make the progressive view win every time and you were 100% sure of it.

          now you are claiming that no one is running on what the people want, and there's no plan to get us out of this mess (i disagree) and politicians aren't offering anything to get the voters flocking to them.  apparently no one is progressive enough for you.  fine.  you are not alone in that.

          i'm not browbeating voters with how stupid they are.  I'm just acknowledging that they are responding to the disinformation they are fed.  I want them to hear different information and I am not sure how to do that.  But we all have to figure out a way between now and November.

          2008 was an anomaly as elections go.  If young voters and all those first time voters turn out as they did in 2008, everything will be fine.  But they did not turn out in 2010, so my fingers are crossed hoping they will get re-energized for a presidential election year.

          "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

          by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 03, 2012 at 08:47:15 PM PDT

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          •  I'm not moving anything. (0+ / 0-)

            Two different things: the info available to the public at large; the program put out by the Democratic Leadership to motive the public at large, reflecting their desires.

            Whether the first happens or not, the second would change the way politics are reported.

            We're Democrats: we can hold two ideas in our minds at once.

            I don't think you can site me one instance where anyone in Dem leadership has said that they are going to end job-offshoring; break the bankers; stop the destruction of the middle class; make a Manhattan-project scale change to kinetic energy; tax speculative trading; ending the War of National Suicide; connecting banker corruption and the Wars with the increasing impoverishment; or the other things on my list. Those things which would draw voters in hordes.

            I'm certain you can't, because it never happened.

            The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

            by Jim P on Fri May 04, 2012 at 10:53:43 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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