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View Diary: Firearms and Civil Rights: Two Scenarios (162 comments)

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  •  This is irrelevant (10+ / 0-)

    to the question of gun rights.

    In this case, guns were used to restrict the civil rights of the Kalonjis to enter and enjoy their own home, to peaceably go about their business in their own neighborhood, and to be free of imprisonment by government authorities.  
    In this case, guns were used to commit a crime. The stupidity of these cops is another matter entirely.
    Robert Canoles is unapologetic: “This is my second amendment right” he told the local newspaper.  
    He can say what he wants, it doesn't make it true. It should also be noted that he spoke these words before police informed him of the charges against him.
    For some gun enthusiasts, their second amendment rights include threatening their neighbors and telling them what to do on their own land.
    Hyperbole much?
    I doubt he actually believes that. Had he known they were the owners, he'd cretainly never have confronted them. That of course doesn't excuse his stupidity in not calling the cops instead of going next door. Nor does it excuse the cops for not calling the Kalonji's son, who could have cleared this matter up immediately.

    Instead, the cops and the neighbors are facing the wrath of a celebrity attorney who is working for them pro bono because the Kalonji's son is his kid's soccer coach. Oops.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

    •  It is because of stupid people that gun control is (0+ / 0-)

      It is because of stupid people that gun control laws are necessary and should be enforced.  And there are a lot of stupid people out there (by definition HALF of the the US population has below-average IQ).

      Why is it that the same argument should not be made AGAINST gun ownership?  Say, just because some stupid and unreasonable person invaded a home and threatened the owners doesn't mean that everyone will invade homes and threaten the owners.  Ergo, your desire to arm yourself is moot.

      "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

      by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:19:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  And here's where the authoritarian mentality (7+ / 0-)

        comes out.

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:36:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, because there's nothing authoritarian . . . (0+ / 0-)

          about getting your way through force of arms.

          LOL!

          "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

          by FogCityJohn on Thu May 03, 2012 at 01:00:19 PM PDT

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          •  And you'll find that the term RKBA advocates (6+ / 0-)

            use for people who use force to get their way is: felons.

            This has nothing whatsoever to do with law-abiding citizens who maintain defensive arms, as protected under the US Constitution.

            Authoritarians believe the average person has the mental state of a child, monster, or lunatic, and must be kept under a tight rein by the state for his and others' protection. This has nothing to with the liberal tradition - indeed, this belief system hates the common man, rather than venerates him.

            The diarist showed his hatred of his fellow citizen with the IQ comment.

            Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

            by Robobagpiper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 01:30:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Authoritarians believe lots of things. (0+ / 0-)

              Like this, for example:

              枪杆子里面出政权
              Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

              [Mao Zedong, The Little Red Book, Chapter 5 (1964)]

              "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

              by FogCityJohn on Thu May 03, 2012 at 03:06:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Interesting choice of heroes there (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                theatre goon, KVoimakas

                See, I could counter with several dozen quotes from the civil libertarians who framed our Constitution and Bill of Rights about the importance of an armed citizenry to liberty.

                And there lies the difference - authoritarians, including gun-control advocates, see the gun not only as a means for concentrating power, but they demand that they be restricted to agents of the state or party. The notion of armed citizens not under the strict hierarchy of state or party is an anathema to authoritarians of any country or era.

                The civil libertarians that founded this country recognized the need to disperse power; and the 2nd was written, in no small part, to keep armaments from being exclusively the purview of the parentalist state.

                But ignorant of our tradition of liberty, and operating from a position of fear and contempt of the citizenry (half of them have a below average IQ!) gun-control authoritarians throw their lot in with Mao and want to concentrate that power in the agents of the state, who have shown a penchant for using them for adventurism and atrocities abroad, and police terror at home.

                Congratulations - your choice of quotes made my point quite excellently.

                Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

                by Robobagpiper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 05:52:58 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're funny. (0+ / 0-)

                  See, I'm not the one who feels the need to own a gun.  You are.  So it's kind of strange that you'd put me in Mao's camp, because if I agreed with him, it would stand to reason that I'd be rushing out to buy the thing he says is the source of power.  

                  As for the supposed history of the Second Amendment, it was exhaustively chronicled in Justice Stevens' dissent in the Heller case.  When one looks at it honestly (i.e., in a manner unlike that of the Heller majority), one sees that it has to do with the concern that the federal government might dominate the states.  The idea that it has something to do with some kind of individual right of self-defense is entirely unsupported by that history.  Of course, one can always claim one is construing a living constitution, but that's not the claim you're making.

                  "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

                  by FogCityJohn on Thu May 03, 2012 at 06:51:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Half of EVERYWHERE has below average IQ! (7+ / 0-)
        by definition HALF of the the US population has below-average IQ
        ROTFLMAO   Give it a rest!

        Happy just to be alive

        by exlrrp on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:41:29 AM PDT

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      •  No. (8+ / 0-)

        Half the population has below median IQ. Which still tells you very little about where most people actually fall on the scale.

        If Albert Einstein walks into a bar, the average IQ just went up...

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:48:21 AM PDT

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        •  Careful (0+ / 0-)

          Median is the "middle value" of a range of numbers.

          Mean is the sum of a range of numbers divided by the N (number of numbers).

          By definition, the "average" (i.e. mean) IQ is set at 100 with a standard deviation of 15.  So it is corect to say that "half of the US population has below-average IQ".

          It is not correct to say half the population has a below-median IQ, because to determine the median, we have to know both the highest and lowest IQ scores.  The lowest IQ is theoretically zero, while there is no limit to the highest score.  In reality, the highest and lowest IQ scores can not be determined.  

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Thu May 03, 2012 at 12:21:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So half of people are below average IQ (7+ / 0-)

        Would you then apply literacy tests before allowing people to vote?

        Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

        by Robobagpiper on Thu May 03, 2012 at 10:49:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, we need to control all those people. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        theatre goon

        The 50%ers.

        Holy.  Fucking.  Shit.

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