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View Diary: All the words Jesus Christ spoke about gay people in one place (533 comments)

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  •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
    Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.
    Wrong.  Jesus DID speak about homosexuals.  Back then they were called eunuchs:

     “For there are eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb,  and there are eunuchs who are made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who are eunuchs for the kingdom of heavens sake.  Let those who can accept it,  accept it.”   Matthew 19:12.

    Before someone replies that a eunuch is a surgically altered castrated male then explain the "eunuchs who are born thus from their mothers womb" or explain why in ancient China gay men were called eunuchs?

    •  That is open to debate among scholars... (2+ / 0-)
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      lina, Nailbanger

      Jesus was talking about the gift of celibacy in this section and religious scholars disagree about its meaning and historical context.

      Early Christianity and Judaism had some spiritual communities that were celibate and some made the case that to be Christian you had to be celibate... which was not exactly popular with the masses when it came to spreading the "good news."

      It is hotly debated even today because of the Catholic churches insistence on celibacy among the Priesthood.

      It was a highly contentious notion and the early church was not a uniform body and it had many splinter groups like the Gnostics and others who held a wide variety of beliefs that differed and no "standardized" texts until the council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

      In order to understand the use of the term you have to go back to the Greek translation to get to its meaning and you need a historian who specializes in that time period and culture to make that case.

      The Greek and Chinese languages do not share a common root or common history, so your argument is a stretch to the extreme.

      It would be interesting to go to the Codex Sinaticus project, which is translating the oldest bible in existence, and see what the original Greek actually said.

      The project also notes that there are editorial notes from the translators about how they have changed both words and whole sentences in the bible over the centuries.

      In any event... while scholars may wrestle with the use of the term Ευνουχος there is no biblical reference where Christ says explicitly that sex between members of the same sex is wrong or a sin in the New Testament canonical books of the bible.

      I can't speak to the apocrypha or the Gnostic Gospels, but it would be interesting to see if they have any sections that deal with homosexuality.

      Below is one Scholars commentary on Matthew 19:12 and a link below it to others.

      Eunuchs - Ευνουχος, from ευνην εχειν, to have the care of the bed or bedchamber; this being the principal employment of eunuchs in the eastern countries, particularly in the apartments of queens and princesses. These are they whom our Lord says are made eunuchs by men, merely for the above purpose.

      So born from their mother's womb - Such as are naturally incapable of marriage, and consequently should not contract any.

      For the kingdom of heaven's sake - I believe our Lord here alludes to the case of the Essenes, one of the most holy and pure sects among the Jews. These abstained from all commerce with women, hoping thereby to acquire a greater degree of purity, and be better fitted for the kingdom of God: children they had none of their own, but constantly adopted those of poor people, and brought them up in their own way. Philo, Josephus, and Pliny have largely described this very singular sect; and Dean Prideaux, with his usual fidelity and perspicuity, has given the substance of what each has said. Connex. vol. iii. p. 483, etc.; edit. 1725. The account is very interesting, and well worthy the attention of every Christian. Among the rabbins we find these different kinds of eunuchs, not only mentioned, but circumstantially described, סריס חמה saris chama, eunuchs of the sun, i.e. eunuchs by the hand of God; men born impotent. סריס אדם saris Adam, eunuchs of men, those who were castrated. And they add a third sort; those who make themselves eunuchs, abstain from marriage, etc., that they may give themselves Up to the study of the Divine law. See many examples in Schoettgen.

      He that is able to receive - Χωρειν χωρειτω. These words are variously translated: he who can take; let him take it; comprehend, let him comprehend it: admit, let him admit it. The meaning seems to be, Let the man who feels himself capable of embracing this way of life, embrace it; but none can do it but he to whom it is given, who has it as a gift from his mother's womb.

      The great Origen, understanding the latter clause of this verse (which I have applied to the Essenes) literally - O human weakness! - went, and literally fulfilled it on himself!

      http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/...

      Here are some other interpretations and commentaries on Matthew 19:12

      http://bible.cc/...

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