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View Diary: It Doesn't Matter What the Bible says About Homosexuality (287 comments)

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  •  Again, you are missing the point (1+ / 0-)
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    The point is not what Torah scholars and the Talmud say.  The point is that Christians, who also hold these verses as sacred, interpret them in a certain way that has caused and continues to cause great harm.  You may not like it, you may not agree with it, and it may give anyone who's taken a seminary degree from a mainline institution bloody fluxes, but unfortunately that's not going to change the proof texting by bigoted Christian inerrantists.


    •  You are missing the point (1+ / 0-)
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      We don't care about what Christians think or say about books they can't read and stole.  Their view is completely irrelevant as NONE of it applies to them in the first place.

      They may think it does.  They may try and force it on all of us.  But that in no way makes a difference that they stole it or can't read it.

      I find it fascinating that Christians have no self awareness when it comes to the fact they need to misinterpret Torah intentionally to prop up their beliefs.  I find it equally fascinating that you will make excuses for it and continue to promote understanding of their twisted position rather than admit they are fucked up and just plain wrong.

      Christians and their apologists have this blindness about how their interpretations MUST be the correct ones and people politely ignore facts - and I just refuse to let that slide.  

      Torah is right for Jews.  That you accept parts of it as truth is nice - but irrelevant.  Torah is for Jews, by Jews, to Jews, about Jews and being Jewy Jewy Jews.  That is the purpose of Torah.  Not a Jew?  Not yours.

      And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

      by Mortifyd on Mon May 14, 2012 at 02:54:22 PM PDT

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      •  So... you're a religious person who is firmly (0+ / 0-)

        convinced that yours is the true religion and all others are false?

        You are aware that this very attitude has caused a few minor problems throughout history, are you not?

        'Betting against Facebook since 2012'

        by VictorLaszlo on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:19:01 PM PDT

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        •  not at all actually (1+ / 0-)
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          I'm a thoroughly modern man who believes in evolution, G-d as at best an abstract concept and firmly support gay marriage.

          I just happen to be very proud of my heritage and choose to keep the mitvos because I can - being Jewish and all.  It is my inheritance and I cherish it deeply.  But I didn't throw out my brain because I put on a pair of tefillin and a black hat.

          True or false doesn't matter to me in the slightest in terms of theology.  Using my Torah to prop up abuse, lies and distortions does very much.  Christians lie about Torah text, cultural context and insist it is literally true - but not right since they weren't included.  That's a theology problem not of my making, not of my concern and as I can read Hebrew - makes no sense.

          Most of us don't consider it to be literally true - but it's ours, that much we all agree on.  It is the myths and longings and stories of our ancestors.  It is our heritage and the key to our identity as Jews, whether we are orthodox or completely secular atheists or somewhere inbetween.

          Christian abuse and projection is something I have no stomach for anymore.  Someone has to point out they are standing on sand because they can't read.

          And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

          by Mortifyd on Mon May 14, 2012 at 04:32:21 PM PDT

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          •  Well said... (1+ / 0-)
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            A powerful statement... and true.

            Most Christians are too lazy to even go back to the original Greek to study their own texts or study the culture from which it came.

            That is a pity as there are no some really great on-line  concordances now available that can take them into the Greek translations as well as cultural anthropologist commentaries to help discern the context.

            In stead they rely on "New Translations" which usually are dumbed down versions written by the hands of lesser men with little spiritual insight and frequently one hell of a social agenda.

            And truth be known... few ever read those beyond pulling a few choice lines out of context to hurl at someone.

      •  First, I'm not a Christian (0+ / 0-)

        I'm a Unitarian Universalist, and I agree that the fundamentalists are distorting the Hebrew Scriptures in their campaign again LGBT Americans.

        HOWEVER - Jews objecting to this is not going to stop one single fundamentalist from cherry picking Leviticus and using it as a club against others.  THAT is what I was saying.  I certainly don't agree with this, so please don't act as if I do, but acting proprietary about the Torah is not going to make any difference when fundamentalist Christians are so prominent in the discourse on this subject.

        •  whatever you are (0+ / 0-)

          if you know they are doing it and give lip service to their delusions as normal and "proper" translation and understanding - then YOU are part of the problem whether you think you are or not.

          You demand I yell louder they stop while insisting it won't make a difference - pick a position please?  I think you are just comfortable with the mythos and don't want to examine it in the context of where it came from or deal with the discomfort yourself, much less society wide.

          Christian or not.

          And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

          by Mortifyd on Tue May 15, 2012 at 05:09:17 PM PDT

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