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View Diary: Update on Locke High School in L.A. - A Charter School Success (66 comments)

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  •  I'm not reframing, (0+ / 0-)

    I understand the issue. Have you looked at the mess with for-profit colleges ? That's what's coming to K-12, you can take that to the bank.

    The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

    by Azazello on Thu May 17, 2012 at 07:05:58 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  The study I found identified 14% for-profit... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angelajean

      charter schools in the country, at least as of 2006.  That 14% generally have a non-profit parent organization which then contracts with a for-profit school management company.

      That means the other 86% of charter schools are true non-profits.

      http://www.leftyparent.com/...

      Cooper Zale Los Angeles http://www.leftyparent.com

      by leftyparent on Fri May 18, 2012 at 06:41:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Everyone who is (0+ / 0-)

      bothering to read here understands the issue.

    •  Laws vary state-by-state (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Azazello, angelajean

      In California, for-profit charters, are disallowed. There is not a single one.  You also state in another post that there are masquerading for-profit charters under a non-profit umbrella.  I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Could you provide me with an example?

      Credulant (adj): Something that is not fully credible because it is unsourced but it sounds true so it is accepted without argument.

      by xajaxsingerx on Fri May 18, 2012 at 10:59:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm pretty sure I never said that, (0+ / 0-)

        about "masquerading." I do believe that charters are part of the corporate takeover, the privatization, of education in America. Do you remember how it happened in health care ? Non-profit hospitals were much more numerous than they are now. During the 80s and 90s, there were middlemen who went around the country buying non-profit hospitals and HMOs. They then turned them into for-profits and sold them to large chains, becoming fabulously rich in the process. What is now a non-profit charter school will not necessarily be a non-profit 5 years from now. You can read about how it happened in health care in Critical Condition, Barlett & Steele, '04. I've been following the War on Public Education for more than 20 years. You can believe me now or believe me later. It's about privatization; it's about the $$$.

        The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

        by Azazello on Fri May 18, 2012 at 11:33:10 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I may have confused (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Azazello, leftyparent

          your comment with another person's.  I apologize.  I think, though, that there are fundamental differences between the Charter movement (at least as it is in California) and the privatization of healthcare. Here in California, there can be no profit for a Charter organization.  

          Each charter has its finances managed by "Funding Agent," which must be either an existing school district or the State Board of Education.  these Funding Agents, in exchange for 1% of the funds, control the flow of money between the state and the charter.  Charters are also required to file quarterly and annual financial reports to both the funding agency and the charter holder that demonstrate, to the dollar, where their money is going.  

          Having both helped run a charter, having written a charter, having shepherded charters through approval, and having taught in several of them, I can assure you that the profit motive is not a charter motive.

          Credulant (adj): Something that is not fully credible because it is unsourced but it sounds true so it is accepted without argument.

          by xajaxsingerx on Fri May 18, 2012 at 12:16:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I live in Arizona, (0+ / 0-)

            the meth lab of democracy. We have much looser charter requirements here and lots of dubious strip mall charters. After pushing the idea that the public schools are "failing" the Right demanded vouchers. People were suspicious and rightly so. They couldn't get their wish right away, so they settled for charters, the next best thing. After all, charters are premised on the idea that traditional schools are broken and must be "reformed."

            The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

            by Azazello on Fri May 18, 2012 at 12:25:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  If I lived in AZ (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Azazello, angelajean

              I'd be against charters, too.  Please believe me when I say it's different here in CA.

              And you're correct as to the premise of charters -- but I don't think I could argue that our inner-city public schools aren't failing their students.  The graduation rate from our local district schools is under 37%.  Ours at Locke is only a little bit higher, but it is - a little bit - higher.

              Here in California, over 40% of freshmen at CSU do not return for their sophomore year -- the supermajority therein cite an inability to keep up with the work rather than the cost of tuition as their reason.

              We need to be doing something different -- whether it be in the districts or in the charters -- because what we have been doing is not successful for those who have the greatest need for quality public schools.

              Credulant (adj): Something that is not fully credible because it is unsourced but it sounds true so it is accepted without argument.

              by xajaxsingerx on Fri May 18, 2012 at 12:31:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My belief is that underlying social problems, (0+ / 0-)

                the results of a 30-year class war, have more to do with outcomes than teachers unions or failing schools. Politicians of both parties, having been complicit in said class war, would much rather scapegoat the schools than admit that their policies have failed large numbers of American families.

                The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

                by Azazello on Fri May 18, 2012 at 12:45:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I agree wholeheartedly (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Azazello, angelajean

                  and,as a union member, I certainly don't believe we are the problem.

                  But whatever the cause is, I strongly believe that searching for ways to mitigate the damage cannot wait and, even if the approaches are detrimental to long-term efforts at change within the system, we also need to remember that every year that passes is the only year that millions of students have in their current grade and that every year we do nothing, we continue to damage those who can afford it the least.

                  Charters are by no means the solution, and their implementation in many areas have made them part of the problem, but if the alternative is to make no changes while we fight a long-term, generational, policy battle, then I will continue to put my effort into creating a strong charter alternative.

                  But then again, I live in Ca and have that luxury...

                  Credulant (adj): Something that is not fully credible because it is unsourced but it sounds true so it is accepted without argument.

                  by xajaxsingerx on Fri May 18, 2012 at 01:44:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  East / West divide? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Azazello

              Maybe this isn't true in Arizona, but here in the northeast rich kids just don't go to public school, full stop.  That's the problem that I see with the public school system: it's actually a two-tier system, where those who can afford it go to private schools, and everybody else goes to public school.

      •  Some chater schools are non-profits but... (0+ / 0-)

        contract the running of the school to a for-profit management company.  But again, based on the 2006 study, that's only about 14% of charter schools!

        Cooper Zale Los Angeles http://www.leftyparent.com

        by leftyparent on Fri May 18, 2012 at 03:43:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Higher ed in the US is extremely strong (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angelajean

      Most would say, thanks to a diversity of public schools, non-profits, and public-private joint ventures.

      Not saying there aren't problems with for-profit colleges, and of course it's not at all clear that the postsecondary system we have can scale to serve the numbers that it needs to, much less the numbers the K12 system serves, but if you're seriously trying to argue against "privatization" of K12 education, you should probably try to avoid talking about higher ed as much as possible, because its an example of exactly the kind of system reformers want, and it's working pretty darn well.

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