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View Diary: Marijuana Legalization Talking Points (141 comments)

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  •  You forgot the jobs (31+ / 0-)

    Colorado has a population a little over five million. We added 8000 jobs in two years after the medical marijuana market took off 2009.  The construction industry saw an infusion of close to $120,000,000 to build the grows and retail outlets. (800+ of each by last count. The state, counties, and cities are collecting sales tax and the black market is dead at the retail level.

    •  I'm all for pot legalization (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bmeis, FG

      but I am doubting the $120M number for construction.  Most of those outlets went into existing retail space.

      Colorado's pot experience has not all been rainbows and happiness.  There has been multiple break ins and robberies at many of the retail outlets, enough that Fort Collins has reversed course on medical marijuana dispensaries.

      Also the fact that Physicians were getting kickbacks and running prescription mills with some dispensaries doesn't sit well with me either.  

      Finally, if anyone thinks that organized crime will wash their hands of pot once it becomes legal is looking at this with rose covered glasses.  Organized crime still has it's claws in many, many legal enterprises such as legal prostitution and gambling in Nevada, construction, and liquor distribution.  Also  I am assuming that you believe that pot will be taxed, and taxed heavily....organized crime will find a way to sell untaxed pot just like they find a way to sell untaxed booze and smokes.

      Like I said, I agree that pot should be legal and I believe that the pluses outweigh the minuses for legalization.  I also think that once pot is legalized there will be a whole new set of problems that will need to be solved, and to say everything will be just fine and dandy is an oversimplification of a complex issue.

      •  The Grow Ops (10+ / 0-)

        800 Grows were built in a two year period.  I built three.  They were $230,000, $127,000, and $330,000 dollar builds. 800 x 150K=120,000,000.

        The 400Amp Servcices, HVAC, etc. add up in a hurry.

        I didn't even add the retail build numbers. I'm low if anything.

      •  Colorado is MMJ (10+ / 0-)

        We're talking full legalization. Most of Colorado's problems are a result of partial legality, criminals knew where to find money and kind bud, so they went for it.

        Many small towns along with Fort Collins outlawed dispensaries, and displayed the usual small-minded, small-town politics in doing so- they want to preserve the sense of community, but ignore the number of liquor stores in their towns. The lies of public safety and morality always drive the actions of the fearful.

        There is no situation in our culture without problems, but the benefits in this situation are enormous compared to residual problems. And such problems, crime and greed, and built into our culture.

        "Political ends as sad remains will die." - YES 'And You and I' ; -8.88, -9.54

        by US Blues on Mon May 21, 2012 at 12:29:17 PM PDT

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      •  Ah, but what problems? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RUKind, Damnit Janet

        Unlike alcohol, legalization of pot won't lead to lots of arrests for erratic driving - seriously, is someone going to be stopped for driving too slow?
        To me, legalizing pot will only help the economy. Just think of the jump in junk food sales! I'd buy stock in Frito-Lay and Haagen Daz tomorrow!
        But, seriously, what problems do you think would occur? I can't think of many.

        Isn’t it ironic to think that man might determine his own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice of an insect spray. ~ Rachel Carson, Silent Spring ~

        by MA Liberal on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:19:23 PM PDT

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    •  Jobs? Legalization is just a gateway to "Big Pot" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RUKind, boudi08

      Wait until Monsanto releseases their premium bud and puts the little guys out of business.

      AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT HEALTH CARE IN 2011? -- Susan from 29

      by voracious on Mon May 21, 2012 at 11:12:17 AM PDT

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      •  The medical guys have a head start (5+ / 0-)

        There are 2300 named strains in the world right now and consumers complain if there aren't twenty strains on the shelf. Monsanto will get in, but they will be the Boone's Farm of pot. They will not be able to match the variety of tens of thousands breeders with a head start. The small high quality producers will always have a market, and like wine a lot of black boxes will be sold.

        Monsanto will enter the market when it is legal federally.

      •  I do not think (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        voracious, boudi08

        I would be interested in smoking "Roundup ready" weed.  But I could see it being grown, and I can see Monsanto effectively lobbying against requiring package disclaimers.  Okay, we're a decade from that at least; but yeah.

        You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

        by rb608 on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:31:16 PM PDT

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      •  This is part of the reason why those of (0+ / 0-)

        us that advocate for the legalization of pot must think a little harder and come up with better systems than the one we have now.  In general terms, the three possible replacement systems are the free market (big business), the command market (government sells pot) and a hybrid system where specially created non-profit agencies are put in charge of the pot trade and all profits do not accrue either to individuals or the government but are poured back into drug education and drug rehab.

        In our exuberance to get rid of the worst possible system (the black market), we should not thoughtlessly support just any old alternative.  I personally support a hybrid system as the most reasonable alternative but would allow states and counties to choose what system best fits their local culture/community.

        We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

        by theotherside on Mon May 21, 2012 at 02:54:43 PM PDT

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      •  Ah, but the best pot is usually home grown. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rebel ga, RUKind

        I grew a small amount a couple of years ago, in my back yard, not even an ounce. But it was primo.
        I think, however, pot will follow alcohol in production and marketing. I don't see a really big deal with it all.

        Isn’t it ironic to think that man might determine his own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice of an insect spray. ~ Rachel Carson, Silent Spring ~

        by MA Liberal on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:21:12 PM PDT

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      •  Premium bud requires both good seeds and talent (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rebel ga, RUKind

        Monsanto couldn't corner the market, that's why it's still illegal. Cannabis would decentralize markets instead of feeding the Wall Street Banksters. Local small factories and cottage industries will grow around the hemp growing in the fields. The best quality medical and recreational cannabis will still be produced by local independent producers.

        Millions of good living wage manufacturing jobs will be created all across America producing the more than 25,000 products that can be made better, stronger, more durable and less expensive from hemp. Biofuels, building materials, nutritious hemp seed foods, paper products, plastics, fine and course cloth can all be made better and cheaper from hemp. Allowing hemp to be grown as normal rotation crop could produce enough hemp biomass and hemp seeds to replace all the petroleum we now use.

        Visit my website http://www.rmforbes.net

        Really don't mind if you sit this one out. My words but a whisper -- your deafness a SHOUT. I may make you feel but I can't make you think..Jethro Tull

        by RMForbes on Mon May 21, 2012 at 05:55:29 PM PDT

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      •  It will be Altria and not Monsanto (0+ / 0-)

        Altria has the farm land and the infrastructure to switch immediately from tobacco to cannabis. In fact, expect blends of the two to keep the nicotine addiction going.

        "He not busy being born is busy dying." R. Zimmerman

        by RUKind on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:15:22 PM PDT

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        •  omg (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RUKind

          I have a young friend who rolls a mix of tobacco and weed into a spliff with tobacco at the end.  Its also mixed in with the weed.  I gave up tobacco so, he claims it works better.  I think not but who knows.  Your sentence did strike me though.  your right.

        •  Winemakers or Brewers will have a chance (0+ / 0-)

          Everyone else is playing in a different sort of market. Variety is the market and I don't think we are going to see anyone in big agribusiness or the cigarette market do really well.

          I am forced by my customers to grow and manage 50 varieties with distinct growing needs and very specific requirements. I'm good at diesels and OGs. many growers can't even get these varieties to finish.

          Wine and beer are the analogous markets.

    •  I say BS on that $120,000,000 and 8000 jobs! (0+ / 0-)

      Where is the data on that!

      •  It's based on what has happened and is happening (8+ / 0-)

        800 hundred Grow ops were built and 800 retail retail outlets opened. $150K a piece is on the low end of any estimate per grow op/retail pair.

        The math says $120,000,000.

        800 Businesses with 10 employees each is 8000 jobs. I'm probably low there too. I didn't even include the temporary employment bump in the trades or the continuing maintenance on the facilities' HVAC systems.

        Do the math nationally and we're talking a billions injected into the US economy. Boulder's unemployment rate is under 6% for a reason. We became a hub for production for the whole state. In a town of 100k, 600 hundred jobs is a big deal.

    •  And is the Colorado gov't getting tax revunes? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joe wobblie, boudi08

      Basically; I think that cannabis being taxed like alcohol and tobacco only adds to the attraction of the US gov't's, legalizing medical cannabis.

      I Agree Totally Cannaman! And Potency is not important with the chronically ill anyway. Since they don't go very far. Many home bound. Dear Vice President Biden,

      God's Love, We Deliver
      Volunteers: Corporations + Groups

      Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

      by rebel ga on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:09:40 PM PDT

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    •  Here's a talking point for Hemp... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Damnit Janet

      which is NOT mary jane...

      Hemp for Victory
      made by our government.

      Yet it is prohibited to grow hemp.

      A crop that does not deplete the soil, produces: oil, paper, cloth, rope, etc...

      Our founding documents are written on hemp paper. No wonder that they survive.

      "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." ~ Thomas Paine

      by third Party please on Mon May 21, 2012 at 06:31:38 PM PDT

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      •  It actually adds to the soil (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        boudi08

        in just one season, Hemp will replenish the soil.  

        Oregon is trying to grow it's own hemp so that the people who make hemp milk won't have to go to Canada.  We'll see how that goes.  

        "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix

        by Damnit Janet on Mon May 21, 2012 at 08:41:19 PM PDT

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