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View Diary: "Homosexuality is the powerful satanic weapon of the last days" (46 comments)

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  •  What attempt? (4+ / 0-)

    How am I shielding anyone? This person knows how I feel, and they now know I am gay. I have shared the links above with him, as well as other thoughts. Rather than defriending, what not give him a chance to learn and grow? After all, people getting to know LGBT people is how they become more open-minded in many ways, right?

    •  well, I probably misread (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ljcrazyhistorian, Prinny Squad

      It was based on your comment

      I do not what this diary to be an attack on religion.
      That blinded me to the rest of the paragraph, pretty much.

      It's not really an attack on religion to attack the more closed minded sects, though, is it? As for your friend, yes, certainly give him a chance to learn and grow, but at some point you'll have to reassess.

      -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

      by Dave in Northridge on Mon May 21, 2012 at 01:42:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I included that because (4+ / 0-)

        I didn't want to attract a bunch of "all Christians are evil" comments and whatnot.

      •  I couldn't rec the diary (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OneCharmingBastard, terrypinder

        because it wasn't an attack on religion.

        People keep treating theocrats with kid gloves, and if we want to have a forward-thinking society, we can't have religion playing a major part.

        It'll hold America, and humanity, down if religion is not aggressively downplayed and stripped from our government. Christianity has already got its festering claws in too deep when we have our elected officials quoting their bible while publicly speaking about law.

        I'm not saying peple can't or shouldn't be religious. That's a personal choice. This is America; you can believe whatever you want to believe.

        But it has no place, at all, in our government. Especially if, again, we want to move forward. America is not a Christian nation.

        Dave brings up a good point. If progressive Christians aren't willing to attack their fellow Christians when they pull shit like this, then their loyalty to their deity rather than the USA or the human race as a whole is problematic, not helpful.*

        *Not saying the diarist or anyone else commenting here is guilty of that, just saying in general.

        •  But if you think about it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          raincrow

          all ideologies, beliefs, thoughts, and opinions are in essence a religion.

          You say:

          But it has no place, at all, in our government. Especially if, again, we want to move forward. America is not a Christian nation.
          The law specifically is that the government shall make no laws establishing a religion and so on. The separation of government and politics from religion, defined as any body of ideas, is impossible.
    •  I admire the optimism, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ljcrazyhistorian

      but people don't really change. Not like in TV and the movies.

      You could get someone to change if they are only ignorant. Like some moron who is like "I don't like gay people, that seems weird and strange and I don't like the idea of that."

      Those people aren't necessarily evil, they're just stupid. It's classic cultural-sheep-syndrome, for people who don't think outside of their own experiences and culture. That will be changed as being gay is more mainstreamed, and people can understand it and are exposed to it. That will totally eliminate that sort of problem.

      Those are hearts and minds you can change, because they aren't hateful religious bigots, they are just clueless. They don't hate, they just don't understand and reject something unfamiliar and unusual.

      But when you get some Jesus-freak asshole screaming about their diety and hell, when you're talking about true believers, religious cultists.

      Yeaaah, that's a dead end. One in a billion chance (and I'm being generous) someone like that would have a change of heart. It just doesn't happen with any degree of measurable frequency.

      People just don't change.

      •  You're right. I've frequently been told (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bythesea, Prinny Squad

        that I am too optimistic for my own good. :-) I like to see myself as someone who knows how bad it really is, yet remains hopeful.

      •  I agree to an extent, but I have seen people (4+ / 0-)

        that used to be homophobes come to change or moderate their views, sometimes to a surprising extent.  I say that as someone who is hardly an optimist generally.  I think it would be more true to say that people don't usually change all that much...

      •  Of course ppl change, just not all whom you WANT (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ljcrazyhistorian, OrdinaryIowan

        to change. Damned inconvenient of them, I say.

        In my own family, 3 racists have repented -- only one of whom might have qualified as, to use your phraseology, "clueless."

        And I had to bite my tongue when 3 die-hard right-wing family members "converted" to my side of the political fence -- even turning their backs on their once-beloved Saint Ronald -- after they each suffered enormous financial and/or health setbacks that brought home to them how fragile we and our material "powers" are. So pleasant to be free of their scorn and derision after decades of pressure and even outright verbal abuse.

        I think back to George Wallace and Lester Maddox, some of the Solid South's most rabid segregationists -- quite a stretch to call them "clueless" -- repenting of their virulent racism. I think of friends and acquaintances who discovered God after years of confirmed and even rabid atheism; or who were religious -- even screaming Jesus-freak assholes -- and awoke one day with no God in their life. I know a goodly number of us who have recovered from addictions to alcohol, sex, tobacco, and meth; and/or decades of mental illness, and almost all have undergone a revolution in our assessment of human worth.

        People do change, even when people who haven't yet changed insist that people don't change.

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