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View Diary: Gallup poll on abortion shows 'pro-lifers' are hypocrites (114 comments)

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  •  I too believe... (0+ / 0-)

    that if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she has the right not to be pregnant...  I just happen to believe that, in this day and age, with the wide range of birth control available to both men and women the decision should be made before intercourse.  Obviously, when a woman is raped, she loses her ability to choose anything, hence the exception.  Nor does any woman plan that her pregnancy is going to endanger her life or health, but, if it does, she should be allowed to decide.  And, the same goes for a baby that has some genetic for developmental abnormalities that would make its quality of life untenable.  I believe that would be a heart-wrenching decision that only a mother should make.

    That is why I think it is so important that we make a stand against current trends to limit access to affordable birth control for everyone and educate our youth about birth control.  Those are the real hypocrites: people who are "pro-life", but also work to prevent men and women from obtaining affordable birth control while simultaneously insisting that a curriculum of "abstinence only" will educate and protect our youth.

    •  What if the birth control fails? (0+ / 0-)

      What if the mom is thrilled to be pregnant but her husband/companion/life partner is not and leaves and she knows she can't support the child but used birth control and it failed?

       What if she gets cancer half way through but used birth control and it failed?

        What if she is an abused woman who knows another baby would mean she must stay a minimum of 5 years with her abuser, but she used birth control and it failed?  

      What if she does drugs daily and is kind enough to not wish her baby to be born addicted but used birth control and it failed?

      What if she has no medical insurance and her husband has a job so they do not qualify for Medicaid and yet somehow she needs to get this baby out of her, of yeah and she was on birth control and it failed?

      What if she becomes pregnant 5 days after being accepted to medical school after a 3 year wait and 4 years with a 4.0 and she used two different kinds of birth control but it failed?

      What if she went to her graduation party and drank all night and has no idea how she became pregnant but was on birth control and it failed?

      What if she has Down's Syndrome and couldn't possibly take care of the child herself but used birth control and it failed?

      What if having a baby means she will certainly lose her job and she is alone with no family, and she used birth control and it failed?

      What if she is over 40 and her children are grown and she thought herself to be in menopause and yet found herself pregnant after a doctor took her off birth control?

      What is she hasn't been employed in 12 years and doesn't even have a home but was on birth control and it failed?

      What if she doesn't want a child and was on birth control and it failed?

      See my point.  You are either pro-choice because you believe a woman has a right ALWAYS to be not pregnant if she wants to be not pregnant.....or you are not pro-choice because you don't feel a woman ALWAYS has that right....period.  All or nothing.  

      •  pro-life has always meant no abortions ever (0+ / 0-)

        pro-choice has always meant that sometimes an abortion is necessary and that decision is up to the woman.  There is too much confusion concerning the terms pro-life and pro-choice and perhaps done on purpose to keep the peasants fighting each other instead of looking up to see who is really taking the country to hell in a handbasket.  

        In the circumstances above the women need help.  But hey, social programs are nothing but handouts for lazy worthless people so these women get stingy little or no help at all.  Cut the budgets that would actually help people and give the money to the military industrial complex that likes to kill people.

        Women especially are nothing but cannon fodder to support the military expeditions of the Corporate Welfare Queens.

        •  not all of them do...that's not true. They need (0+ / 0-)

          the right to decide when they wish to be pregnant....for whatever reason or no reason at all.  

          With birth control, abstinence, family planning or abortion....regardless they get to choose.....that is pro-choice, defined.

          •  Agree to disagree... (1+ / 0-)
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            I think we will just not see eye to eye on this one.  I used to self-identify as "pro-life", understanding that, while I could not conceive of a situation in which I personally would have an abortion, there were certainly situations in which I would understand and sympathize with others choosing to terminate their pregnancies.  But, over the past year, because of the current political climate, I have come to regard my position as being "pro-choice".  I still cannot conceive of a situation in which I would opt to terminate my own pregnancy.  I not only appreciate that there are conditions (albeit limited ones) where I feel women should have the right to choose, but I now feel an obligation to take a stand, both moral and political, to protect a woman's right to choose.  That is new for me.  And, I assure you, contrary to your opinion, I am no hypocrite.  Just because you say that I have to believe all of your assertions to call myself pro-choice doesn't make it true.

            •  So is there even one of the situations I have (0+ / 0-)

              listed above that you feel that particular woman should not be allowed to use abortion as her choice?  Because that is what I am asking you feel each one of those women has the right to a safe, legal abortion.....if you do, then you are indeed pro-choice.  

              You personally do not have to ever have an abortion, nor feel you would ever choose that route for whatever reason to be pro-choice, I am with you in that regard, ....but do you feel that the mom with no support, cancer victim, abused woman, drug addict, woman with no medical insurance, medical student with a 4.0, the woman who accidently got pregnant, disabled woman, woman who would lose her job, over 40 woman in menopause who doesn't want to be a mom again, unemployed and homeless woman, and even the woman who for whatever reason just does not want to have a child you feel each one of these women, who used birth control and it failed, or even if they didn't....have the right to a safe, legal abortion?  If you do, you are indeed pro-choice.

              •  Sigh... (0+ / 0-)

                Yes.  I honestly do feel that women people should not be getting abortions just because they don't want to be pregnant... or can't afford a baby... or even because they lose the birth control lottery.

                Men and women today (and realize here I am talking about the U.S.) have so many options for safe, reliable, extremely effective birth control.  So long as we can continue to make this birth control easily accessible and affordable for everyone, I believe there is no reason why, in this day and age, people cannot prevent unwanted pregnancies before they occur.  

                I am not a prude.  And I am not preaching abstinence.  But, I do believe that life begins at conception.  And, as such, I believe there has to be a basic level of respect for the unborn, as well as the rest of us.  And, I used to believe in the simple, black and white, all-or-nothing approach as well.  But then I realized that life is not simple, and there are shades of gray.

                I think that a woman should NOT be tied to an abusive man for the rest of her life.  I think that a woman should not have to put her life, or health at risk.  I do not think a woman should have to give birth to a child who will have no appreciable quality of life, or will suffer unspeakable pain.  I think a woman should not have to give birth to a child that is a nine-month reminder of the rape or incest she endured (not to mention maybe having to get the rapist's consent to put the child up for adoption if she couldn't abort.).  

                My major shift in thinking now is political.  Before, if forced to choose a side, to stand and be counted, I would have cast my vote on the "pro-life" side.  But, over the past year, the "pro-life" side has gone so completely over-board in it's zeal to "win" - waging it's war not only on abortion, but on issues affecting women's health at every level - that, if asked to take a side, I will stand and cast my vote as "pro-choice".  

                The problem: there are "pro-life" people who would say there is no place for someone with my beliefs on their side, and obviously, "pro-choice" people (like yourself) who say there is no place for me on your side.  I would argue that there are many of us who feel that abortion is not a black and white issue.  And I would ask you, which side would you rather have us on?

                •  I would certainly place you on the pro life side (0+ / 0-)

                  with exception for life of the mother, rape and incest as that is exactly what you just described above.  There are millions like you.

                  However there are not true pro-choice people who feel it is pro-choice only in the circumstance of life of the mother and/or baby, rape and incest…..because those are the only exceptions that pro-life people give to satisfy themselves the guilt that they are not sentencing a woman to die or a lifetime of mental torment in order to give birth.

                  For the record, my husband and I have a child born while I was being given the Depo shot, one child while on birth control pills and one using pills and a condom. I am apparently very fertile.  My sister in law is allergic to the pill in that it makes her very seriously depressed taking it and thus has 4 children while taking other forms. My best friend had one child while on birth control but she got an ear infection and no one told her that antibiotics will make birth control not work for a period of time.
                   See not everyone can use the strongest forms, or they still become pregnant while taking it....millions of cases.  What do we do about them?  Sentence them 20 to life for a medical issue, in the case that they did not want to be pregnant?   See, I wanted mine, even though they were each surprises and I had one with severe medical issues (probably due to getting pregnant while getting the shot, or so they believe) best friend kinda did but she really thought she was finished having kids and my sister in law really didn't need the first one, as she has other issues.   But what about the rest?    

                  •  Actually... (0+ / 0-)

                    I named a few other exceptions - a woman in an abusive relationship and health of the child, specifically.

                    But, that doesn't matter.  I'm really through debating this with you...  I'm sorry that you are unwilling to see that there are other ways of thinking about this issue, but the truth is, the issue of abortion is emotionally charged for a lot of people, and it's in no way black and white for everyone.

                    That's why the "pro-choice" and "pro-life" labels are such misnomers.  No one is "ant-choice" or "anti-life".  It's a tired argument... much as this one has become...

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