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View Diary: Discussing homelessness and homeless people at Daily Kos (153 comments)

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  •  well, I suppose that was inevitable n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JesseCW, zedaker

    -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 04:42:30 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  perhaps you should/could learn from it? (8+ / 0-)

      I think it says a lot about your own condesending way of writing and explains a lot about the diarist that you're slamming's state of mind also.

      I don't understand why it's more important to belittle the person -- me -- who gave anonymously and wrote about it anonymously.  I thought it was simply most important to relieve suffering however one could, whenever one could.  
      does that tell you anything?

      America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

      by cacamp on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 06:08:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It sure does (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sockpuppet, JesseCW

        I shouldn't have responded to argo AT ALL.  That was my mistake.

        -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

        by Dave in Northridge on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 06:30:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  True. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aitchdee, cacamp

          But saying so is just another way for you to sneer, right?  I should have just left quietly, saying nothing to you AT ALL.

          •  I hope you don't go. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kait, BMarshall, twigg, cacamp

            Hi argomd. I'm one of the so-called abusive commenters to whom the diarist alludes; I'm also one of many folks who weighed-in defend you. (Not so many took DinN's part, it might be worthwhile noting.)

            Listen, I knew this diary was comming and perhaps I should have told you: he mentioned, in yet another diary, that he'd be writing it sooner or later, and indeed I've been rather dreading its appearance. But now that it's published I find I don't feel so upset, and I'd be thrilled if you could feel as meh about it as I (somewhat surprisingly) do. ;)

            When these events transpired sometime mid-May, I was poised to go to Kos and complain, but another poster here quite reasonably talked me out it, and I don't regret it. The whole thing was such a nonevent, you know? Now, I do feel greatly mischaracterized, and I think that you have been unfairly portrayed as well, but there's not much either one of us can do to fix any of that--except to keep on posting and to continue trying to be the best people that we can be. We each know our hearts and what we intended, right? DinN is free to be mad and drag it out and write twenty diaries on the subject if he is so inclined. And we are free to say whatevs, baby: and move on. ;) That's what I'm doing and I want to invite you to join me.

            I've also decided not to bother defending myself. Instead I'm letting the whole thing just blow past me: the initial incident, this current iteration, and anything else that may be forthcoming from this person. I can certainly understand why you'd think about leaving--I was on the verge myself. But I changed my mind: I won't be run out of town after eight years without a single significant problem with anybody, no way! And argomd, you're a good newish poster and there are people here who appreciate your contribution; you shouldn't let this one incident drive you off, either. The guy's a bully--I mean, IT'S NOT YOU: so please, please, just chalk it up.

            Besides, nobody's going to remember a thing about any of this in another day or two. I promise. ;)

            God bless our tinfoil hearts

            by aitchdee on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 10:27:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This: (5+ / 0-)
              I've also decided not to bother defending myself. Instead I'm letting the whole thing just blow past me: the initial incident, this current iteration, and anything else that may be forthcoming from this person.
              Is what the adults in the room do :)

              Lots of people read these threads, and they form judgements. They sigh with relief when the adults refuse to be drawn into "tit-for-tat", and they take note of those who sow the seeds of division.

              Make your point, stay classy, move on.

              The other way will lead to tears.

              I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
              but I fear we will remain Democrats.

              by twigg on Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 10:56:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Then I'm not an adult. (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                twigg, timewarp, aitchdee, Renee

                Any word I say to another may be the straw that breaks that 'camel's back', and I've seen other people broken because of careless words.   I naively thought others knew that, as well; but it is very clear I am badly mistaken and will accept that judgment, as so many DK commenters have shown me I must.  Hot listed, no less!  In this case, as I said in my response to him, I just no longer have the personal wherewithal to handle this in an 'adult' and graceful manner.  "Classy" is just not an adjective to which I've ever aspired.  Thanks for the advice, but I'll have to let it go for now.

                •  That is your choice (4+ / 0-)

                  I would prefer that you stick around.

                  I also think you have something to say that is worth listening to.

                  There will always be those who disagree, and they won't always keep the tone civil.

                  Be better than them.

                  I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                  but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                  by twigg on Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 01:23:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  sweetheart (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Renee

                  I hotlisted it. I did that - I wanted to be able to put my hand on it quickly - but I'd be danged if I'd rec it to accomplish that end. So, I stuck it in my hotlist. I'd no idea it could be talken as further approbation of this, this, this, thing. ;P

                  Have you see my recent posts? I'm no classy dame either! Come back and let's be a couple of mouthy easy-marks together, what say? ;-)

                  God bless our tinfoil hearts

                  by aitchdee on Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 04:08:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps some of us could learn (11+ / 0-)

        from what Dave has to say in this diary.

        I remember the original diary- I didn't find it offensive (of course I've never been homeless), but I did find it kinda puzzling that so many people had so much to say about how "we" should think about homeless people.  When do we give, how much and under what conditions if any.  It was like Philosophy of Homelessness for the non-homeless.

        I've had plenty of those conversations.  Liberals talk about homeless people all the time.  I've not had those conversations with actual people who are or have been homeless, cause I don't know any.  I can't imagine what it's like- I know there are a zillion logistical issues, but I can't even get past the bare bones idea of having no place to go that is safe and warm and mine.  Which is why I find this diary more interesting and more valuable than the other one.

        •  You know some now, gramosam (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gramofsam1, JesseCW, zedaker

          and thank you.

          -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

          by Dave in Northridge on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 07:12:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You may be surprised (7+ / 0-)

          that you may actually know people who have been homeless.  I keep it a close secret in real life -- because the people who do know about it are condescending in all the worst ways (and unlike the writer of the topic diary, would never ever give money or anything else to a visible homeless person).

          But.  Somehow I survived, and it was because I did get some help here and there.  From strangers, who like the original diarist, did not have a lot to give.  

          I guess what I am saying is that like other portions of the population, one cannot generalize about the thoughts, experiences or feelings of homeless people.

          One thing we all do share -- it is one of the most deeply humiliating experiences one can possibly have.  Way way way more than getting fired or dumped by a partner for another.  And those feelings of humiliation can be easily triggered, though for all of us just what does trigger it can be different.  Unlike Dave, I was not offended by the original diary.  But I think I perfectly understand his feelings and why it is that he feels that way.  To be homeless is not only to be stripped of a place to be in the world (think about that -- what it is to have no place on the entire earth to go) but also of any standing.  With one's identity also goes credit -- which is the root of the word credibility.  

          •  You could be right- before I wrote that (3+ / 0-)

            I actually tried to search my memory for people I know who might have been homeless.  It's probably more accurate to say that of the people I know well enough to know their everyday circumstances, no one has been homeless.

            And thank you for the phrase "a place to be in the world"-- it gets much closer to what I was trying to say with "no place to go".  Such a huge, basic thing that is so taken for granted by most people that it's hard to wrap your brain around losing that.

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