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View Diary: The Moral Maze - Torture (73 comments)

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  •  Yes, both Bush and Cheney have said publicly (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, Russgirl, ladyjames

    Yes, both Bush and Cheney have admited publicly that they sanctioned the use of water-boarding.  Cheney said so on national TV, and Bush in his meoir.  Neither used the word "torture" though.

    Does it matter which word is used?  If I rob a bank, does claiming that I am only "putting money in my pocket" make me not guilty?

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:24:11 AM PDT

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    •  That was my point ... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cynndara, ladyjames

      They have never acknowledged torturing anyone.

      It does matter which word is used because acknowledging "torture" is a confession to breaking the law, using different terminology means that a Jury has to decide.

      Thanks.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:29:43 AM PDT

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      •  You're Welcome!! Let the jury decide. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg, Russgirl, essjay, fallina7

        You seem to be confusing breaking the law with acknowledging breaking the law.  Even if someone refuses to acknowledge they have broken a law, we still recognize that a law might have been broken and a system whereby a jury decide the issue of guilt or innocence.

        Unfortunately, in the case of Bush and Cheney, no jury will decide guilt or innocence because no charges have been brought, thanks to the willingness of the DOJ to ignore the written law.

        Water-boarding is specifically mentioned in US statutes and in international trieaties as an act of torture.  So when Bush or Cheney says that they had sanctioned the use of water-boarding, they are admitting to sanctioning torture.

        This is no different from what many convicted felons do.  They say "I didn't rob a bank, I only put some money in my pocket".  It is up to a jury to decide if I person who claims they only put money in their pocket is guilty of robbing a bank.  That is the American justice system.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:53:02 AM PDT

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        •  Yes, I understand that (0+ / 0-)

          I also think that had any of them ever acknowledge that what they authorised was "torture", then the current Administration would have had rather more difficulty failing to prosecute.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          by twigg on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:58:16 AM PDT

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          •  Excuses notwithstanding, the law is very clear (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            twigg, cynndara, Russgirl, essjay, ladyjames

            The self-serving statements of Bush and Cheney are expected and even understandable, but the law is very clear.  Torture is illegal.  Persons who have engaged in illegal acts should be charged and tried.

            At one time, we Americans believed that there should be one law, to which all are held accountable, regardless of their welath or status.  The question of torture shows us clearly that this is no longer the case; that some of high rank and wealth, even if they have publicly admitted their crimes, will NEVER be held accountable.

            "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

            by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 09:17:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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