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  •  Microsoft giveth & M$ taketh away (17+ / 0-)

    From the Slashdot article

    Microsoft is about to move from effectively owning the PC hardware platform to literally owning it. Once Windows 8 is released, hardware manufacturers will be forced to ship machines that refuse to run any software that is not explicitly approved by Microsoft — and that includes competing operating systems like Linux. Technically Fedora didn't have to go down this path. But, as this article explains, they are between a rock and a hard place: if they didn't pay Microsoft to let them onto the PC platform, they would have to explain to their potential users how to mess with firmware settings just to install the OS. How long before circumventing the secure boot mechanism is considered a DMCA violation and a felony?"
    From the cited article Implementing UEFI Secure Boot in Fedora
    Most hardware you'll be able to buy towards the end of the year will be Windows 8 certified. That means that it'll be carrying a set of secure boot keys, and if it comes with Windows 8 pre-installed then secure boot will be enabled by default. This set of keys isn't absolutely fixed and will probably vary between manufacturers, but anything with a Windows logo will carry the Microsoft key[1].
    •  First I've heard of this monopolistic overreach (9+ / 0-)

      Thanks for posting this information.

      Republicans take care of big money, for big money takes care of them ~ Will Rogers

      by Lefty Coaster on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 05:12:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well, of course...! (10+ / 0-)

        Microsoft's business model has always been to maintain its OS near-monopoly.  

        But to my mind that is far less of a bad thing than the business model of the online spies & stalkers, from Google ("snuggling right up to the line of Creepy") to Facebook to the rest of those, whose goal is nothing less than to predict and control human behavior on a mass scale.  

        In any case there will always be hardware manufacturers supporting other operating systems: Apple of course, and ASUS (open-source) and others.  So for all of us who like to run multiple platforms and operating systems, I don't see any trouble on the near horizon.  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 05:24:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That is my take on it too. (8+ / 0-)

          Currently I can boot into Windows XP or Ubuntu depending on my needs. I would not buy hardware that refused to allow me to do that.

          Diaries are funny things Sam. Type one letter and you never know where you might end up. My apologies to J.R.R. Tolkien.

          by Caddis Fly on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 05:42:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  My inclination is to use separate machines... (7+ / 0-)

            .... which at times has led to the cypherpunk (yes) sci-fi scenario of three laptops on, on my desk, at the same time.

            Dual boot is useful, but usually when I'm running different systems for different tasks, it's more useful to have separate machines on so I can do the tasks in parallel, e.g. programming the PBX while writing the email to the client to tell them what's been done.  

            I understand the objections to machines that are locked-down in one way or another, but to my mind as long as the lockdowns aren't being enforced with lawsuits, people can and will always find a way to make their hardware behave the way they want it to.  

            Now speaking of lawsuits, when are we going to launch class action suits against flash cookies, LSOs, "super cookies," "forever cookies" and all the rest of those, for in effect hacking our machines?  If I did to someone else's server what those bastards are trying to do to our desktops, I'd get prosecuted.  

            "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 06:41:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I wonder if there'll be a problem (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, koNko

          for those wanting to boot into Windows 8 from their Mac; AFAIK, you can still set up Boot Camp (dual-boot) on Macs running Lion, and I'd assume also Mountain Lion (the next "big cat" for the Mac OS).

          Mitt Romney: the Etch-A-Sketch candidate in the era of YouTube

          by Cali Scribe on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:47:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I ask the same below (0+ / 0-)

            I currently run Windows 7 on one machine with Snow Leopard running a virtual machine with Parallels.

            BTW, I'd recommend Parallels of VMware Fusion over Boot Camp, which enables much better performance and the ability to toggle between  OSX and Windows apps. Worth the price for me.

            What about my Daughter's future?

            by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 07:41:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I do have Parallels on my MacBook (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              koNko

              but I've been thinking of Boot Camp because I'd like to try Create-A-World (which is a world creator for Sims 3 that's PC only) and I'm not sure how well it would run under emulation. Still in the "wondering if I want to go that route" stage...

              Mitt Romney: the Etch-A-Sketch candidate in the era of YouTube

              by Cali Scribe on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 10:20:28 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I wonder what happens to OSX running (0+ / 0-)

          Windows 8 with Boot Camp (sucks) Parallels (what I use) or VMware Fusion?

          Anyone know about any evaluations using the Windows 8 beta?

          Memo to self: don't give away the Windows 7 and XP disks.

          What about my Daughter's future?

          by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 07:35:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Sounds like they are (7+ / 0-)

      determined to create a massive secondary market for "jailbroken" hardware.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 05:18:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you don't mind a little bios hacking (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Siri, twigg

        you won't be shut out completely.

      •  May be a problem (0+ / 0-)

        If you want to update your OS, which is a practical necessity with any OS today particularly new releases. I'm reasonably certain MS would run a script to interrogate the BIOS and boot sector as part of the OS verification before install (and there are good reasons for that including looking for boot sector viruses).

        Hence my questions here about running Windows 8 on a Mac virtual machine.

        Undoubtedly there will be was to jail break it (gesh, just releasing such a thing is a dare for some people) but I wonder about the unintended consequences.

        What about my Daughter's future?

        by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 07:47:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Vista / ME / Windows 8 (4+ / 0-)

      They just can't leave well enough alone with every other OS iteration.  Between that hideous new design and things like this, they're just going to convince most PC users to just stick with Windows 7 (which I honestly have found to be really good overall).  

      •  I've got the W8 preview (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        truong son traveler, koNko

        It opens up to that hideous tile system. People who work on computers want a workspace not whatever it is they're selling on the front page.

        •  apparently MS will suppress old interface (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          palantir, truong son traveler, koNko

          They're making it hard to open W8 in anything other than Metro.  Which means that I will refuse to move to it.

          Seems to me that they don't want to sell the new OS to corporate America.  I anticipate W7 hanging around at least as long as XP has.

          Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. -- K.Marx A.Lincoln

          by N in Seattle on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:16:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  This proves a point recently made by Tim Cook (0+ / 0-)

          Tablets and PCs are, respectively, toasters and refrigerators, and bolting them together makes a mess of both.

          I really wonder how long the sign-on screen will last; there are already apps available for the Beta to by-pass it and it seems Microsoft is having second thoughts suggesting that's a feature that could change.

          Actually, Metro is a decent interface for phones/tablets (I tired a Lumina and liked it) but for PCs ... um .... FAIL.

          What about my Daughter's future?

          by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 07:52:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  How is this different from Apple? Almost seems (0+ / 0-)

      like what you describe is Microsoft following the Apple model. (I'm not a techie and really don't know if there is a difference).
      If I'm right, then doesn't that mean a narrowing of access to the non-approved (either by Microsoft or by Apple) world?

      We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

      by Tamar on Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 09:00:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not really. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tamar, BusyinCA

        Windows 8 is intended to unify desktops, tablets and smartphones. Although Apple has moved some IOS type features to Lion, clearly they consider PCs and mobile devices to be 2 different animals and I think this is correct because keyboards and fingers are much different tools.

        That said, I think MS will make a lot of changes from the Beta to final version of Windows 8 to make it more PC friendly - or suffer the consequences.

        Personally, I run Snow Leopard and purposely skipped Lion on general principles because new OS tend to be buggy, by my wife uses Lion and likes it fine, and I don't find any major issues sharing content between OSX and iOS; even iCloud, for what it is, works good on Snow Leopard - unlike the mess that was MobieMe LOL.

        By the way, OSX is based on Unix, and is actually more friendly running non-native applications than Windows. Using Boot Camp, Parallels or VMware, one can install Windows on a Mac in a double boot configuration (Boot Camp) or run both OSX and Windows at the same time (Parallels or VMware) with Windows running in a virtual machine. Likewise, Unix or Linux machines can run OSX or Windows provided you have a virtualiztion utility (VMware, whatever).

        I run Windows 7 on my MacBook using Parallels and can toggle between OSX and Windows applications with no issues. Try that on a Windows machine.

        What about my Daughter's future?

        by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 08:28:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  well I understood maybe 40% of what you said (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          koNko

          which isn't bad, from my point of view.
          I'm on Vista on this computer. Our netbook is Windows 7, but it's my husband's and he never uses it. He comes back to my desktop for just about everything (I've bought him 3 computers and each one has ended up neglected while he parks himself in front of mine and gets in my way. He's a lovable guy so I guess I'll just have to accept that he needs to use my computer, no matter what computer he himself has).

          We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

          by Tamar on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 10:15:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You have my sympathy. (0+ / 0-)

            I suffered through Vista for more than 6 months on a company notebook before requesting the IT department to wipe it and install XP, and the guy said "What took you so long to ask? We thought you actually liked it. No problem."

            Windows 7 runs fine. In case Windows 8 is a clunker, at least we have that to fall back on. In my work we have Windows 7 running some high resolution graphics and large database apps and it's rock solid and never seems to crash, which is pretty remarkable for any non-Unix/Linux OS.

            Even Bill Gates admits Vista sucks. And Jobs admitted MobileMe was "not Apple's finest moment". Incredibly awesome moments of candor.

            BTW, I love your Barney Frank quote. And there are so many lovable Barney Frank quotes to be had.

            What about my Daughter's future?

            by koNko on Sat Jun 02, 2012 at 09:47:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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