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  •  We can. (7+ / 0-)
    I wish, with every fiber in my being, that we could find a way to shut down the propagandists who have spent a good generation or two now brainwashing my brothers and sisters to the point where they believe a bunch of bullshit that makes no coherent sense...
    ...and there is.

    But you can't shut down the propagandists.  It's like whack-a-mole, and they're really not that important anyway.

    The only possible solution I see is to either shut down the money that feeds them, or match it.  And frankly, I doubt that matching it is any more than a pipe-dream - because, for the kind of people who have that much money, there isn't much more in supporting progressive causes.  The 1% who support Republicans get immediate, measurable, and very real financial rewards for doing so; across almost every industry.

    We need to shut down the money.  Nothing will change until we do that one thing.

    And Citizens United will not be overturned.

    Interesting problem, isn't it?

    It ain't called paranoia - when they're really out to get you. 6 points.

    by Jaime Frontero on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:07:24 PM PDT

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    •  What I would give for (8+ / 0-)

      public financing of elections. I hate to sound so cynical, but Citizens United may just prove the be the nail in our democracy's coffin. But for now money is speech, and those with the cash have a much bigger voice. And the other side is working very hard to crush any sort of actual regular-person organization like unions that could give us a collective voice. Because in their minds, there is no collective anymore - there's just the job of figuring out how they can take more from our individual pocketbooks by reducing our wages, cutting our jobs, killing our pensions, making us pay more out-of-pocket for medical care, etc. etc. etc.

    •  We have to try (10+ / 0-)
      either shut down the money that feeds them, or match it
      The 1% who support Republicans get immediate, measurable, and very real financial rewards for doing so; across almost every industry.
      Because they have bought our government. The propaganda IS important--it helps those who have essentially bought our sovereignty to have the shield of "Well? People support us, we must be doing SOMETHING right".

      That support is based on the propaganda. Enough people believe it because it's been fed to them in a steady, relentlessly-droning, mind-numbing fashion nonstop for over thirty years. The checks and balances of national communication were stripped by the Government they finished purchasing the day Citizens United was "decided". And six corporations control all the information, and they can essentially now lie with impunity, provided they can find enough believable marquee names to spew it on-air (and not enough people understand that for what it is, either. )

      In short, enough of America still believes that because it's on TV, it must be--has to be--true.

      You can't possibly believe the propaganda factor isn't that important. It is critical--that is the only way these bastards can divide and conquer over three hundred and fifty million people at the same time. They monopolized the airwaves and they use the language to manipulate the people who watch and listen, into believing a bunch of lies.

       

      I really used to wonder how ordinary, good Germans watched the takeover from the sidelines, or didn't leave.  And now I know.
      So do I. And feeding the public mass doses of bullshit and lies and making them believable--amid a barrage of information overload (as someone else noted upthread) is necessary to garner divisions and keep the people busy bickering among themselves, while the real damage is done in the halls of Congress and state and municipal governments all over this country, right now.

      These people are dismantling our Constitution and because of all this propaganda, they're doing it with the full support of half the people in this country.

      You and I and everyone else has to believe in the idea that those of us with even two sticks' worth of critical thinking skills to rub together that  we have to try and think of a way to shut down the propaganda that's helping that happen.

      Besides, there's not enough money for us to amass--the greedy bastards have the lion's share of it already.

      It is time to #Occupy Media.

      by lunachickie on Tue Jun 05, 2012 at 09:52:04 PM PDT

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      •  not even so much lying anymore (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        lunachickie, Onomastic

        just obscuring anything of any importance with an overabundance of incredibly stupid "infotainment" and celebrity worship. I've been forced to watch NBC and ABC during their morning shows for work, and for the hours upon hours of "early news", there are maybe 10 minutes of anything worthwhile, and the rest is fluffy, glittery bullshit.....so sad and I'm not sure if it is deliberate through some conspiracy, but the dumbing down of America has been spectacularly successful.....

      •  Fairness Doctrine (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PsychoSavannah, lunachickie, marina

        regulate them
        worked before

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        It is the highest impertinence ... in kings and ministers, to pretend to watch over the economy of private people, ... They are themselves always, and without any exception, the greatest spendthrifts in the society. - Adam Smith

        by treesrock on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 05:19:12 AM PDT

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        •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mkor7, marina

          and every time someone mentions it, it gets slapped down as impossible because of "the changing nature of communications". And that's just bullshit. It doesn't matter what it's called or if what it used to be would work now. What matters is that there is no more Fairness Doctrine right now.

          Regulation--it's what's for Democracy. You can't have one without the other, because there will always be human beings who are sociopathic greedheads--who would sell the rest of us out in a New York minute, were there no regulation.

          One by one, regulations have gone away. And look at the train wreck that remains. FOX. Rush. Fucking liars, sophists and manipulators, the lot of them. Yet a lot of people think they're telling the truth when they are demonstrably lying.

          Because of that, half the people in America have learned to hate their own government. Yes, that's right, I said learned.

          How does that happen, again? Did you say "no regulation"???

          you can't reason with (him). (He) flies off into a rage when you try to point out anything that does not agree with that belief system.
          "But....but....they can't say it if it's not true! They wouldn't let it on the air"

          They who? The six guys who own The Air?

          Who or what do you control for the betterment of democracy as a whole? You start by regulating the ones who do not give a damn for humanity, that they would help help dismantle a democracy by using sophistry and manipulation of our own native language.

          It is time to #Occupy Media.

          by lunachickie on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 06:03:18 AM PDT

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          •  I was hoping the Fairness Doctrine (0+ / 0-)

            would be the first thing a new President Obama would enact, because without it every good thing that Democrats tried to do would be torn apart by lies and spin.

            But the immediate backlash was "Free speech!" as if our democracy wasn't an outweighing factor, and as if the people aren't owed, aren't deserving of the whole truth.

            Instead we are treated as fungible units, cheap labor and implements of war, programmed from birth to be not all we can be, but only what they plan for us to be.

            The things that make life worth living, especially peace of mind, are not for us, but only for the privileged few.

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