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View Diary: So, you guys have pretty much lost it, eh? (131 comments)

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  •  The WI Recall loss is a fact. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    efraker, cdreid

    Because it was a loss. The goal of the recall was to recall Walker. It didn't happen. It's a loss.

    The point I make with the abortion debate is that it is about values. Something subjective. Something that can't be proven. That's not an empirical fact.

    Arguing from their value set is the only way you can change their minds. Everyone else that is inclined to make the choice argument already knows it, and already makes it. There really aren't a lot of undecideds left.

    If pro-choice was polling +60%, I wouldn't bother, because it wouldn't matter.

    But it's not. So you have to engage.

    •  Your "facts" do not resemble our Earth facts (4+ / 0-)
      Because it was a loss. The goal of the recall was to recall Walker. It didn't happen. It's a loss.
      Thanks. Glad you're around to tell us all what our goals are. (Note: This is sarcasm. I'm not really grateful, and I'm not happy to have you define the recall movement's goals. I say this because you seem to have trouble seeing sarcasm. Hope that helps. [Note Note: That was also sarcasm. I don't care if it helps.])

      No, the goal was not to recall Walker. That would have been just one means to the goal. The goal was to stop Scott Walker's paymasters' agenda from being implemented with such absurd ease. Scott Walker is nobody. He's an interchangeable pawn. It's the agenda that's important. That's what was halted when the Democrats picked up 3 seats and took back the Senate.

      I won't even bother explaining the success of building movement infrastructure until the above simple point sinks in.

      The point I make with the abortion debate is that it is about values.
      And the next point you make is that we must accept their framework for the debate. Game over, we lose.

      The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

      by lotusmaglite on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 08:31:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Think of it this way. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        efraker

        You're attacking their argument.

        You're dissecting the life argument, explaining why it is inferior to the choice argument.

        And no. Walker was the target. The GOP Senators were being punished for supporting him, but Walker was the point.

        I don't know if you want me to do a Kos Diary study to prove this or what, but it really should be evident.

        •  All that needs to be said (3+ / 0-)
          And no. Walker was the target. The GOP Senators were being punished for supporting him, but Walker was the point.
          That's all that needs to be said. I'm glad you weren't there to plan strategy in Wisconsin, because we'd now have Scott Walker calling a special session to destroy what's left of Wisconsin, and his allies in the Senate would be free to make it happen.

          It would be nice to live in your world, where killing Osama Bin Laden ended terrorism, convicting Bernie Madoff ended the predation on America by the greedy, and Ted Haggard's flameout reduced the religious right to rubble.

          Unfortunately, we live in the real world, where lopping the figurehead off an encroaching movement does nothing but put a meaninglessly similar, interchangeable face in it's place. Because of that, we have to make sure we're working to stop the movement, not their PR guy.

          To put it another way, there's a reason why the diary you slagged got 205 recs and yours got 5. You have no idea what you're talking about, and everyone knows it. Do yourself a favor and spend some time reading the work of people who know more than you do before writing any more diaries. Otherwise, you'll be stuck with the insulting, empty, clueless finger-wagging you've been doing.

          Bored now.

          The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

          by lotusmaglite on Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 11:12:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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