Skip to main content

View Diary: Germany's solar installations generate 10% of the nation's electricity in May. This is a failure? (196 comments)

Comment Preferences

  •  It isn't a question of strain on (0+ / 0-)

    Germany's infrastructure. It is the strain of the generosity of their subsidies on their coffers that is the problem. Paying 22 cents per kwh for wholesale power is Not sustainable.

    •  If the Germans are not complaining, (7+ / 0-)

      nor those of us Americans who live there and post here, what do you care how much they pay? I live here and it doesn't bother me. Most think a cleaner environment is worth paying for, and I happen to agree. I really do not get the price argument from people who don't live here, it makes zero sense, especially when our own country's consumption of energy is horribly wasteful and double the per capita consumption of Germany. There's huge amounts of room for improvement in the US, so please, clean up in your own back yard first.

      „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

      by translatorpro on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 03:56:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Germans won't be paying 22 cents/kwH (7+ / 0-)

      wholesale.  I know you like to ignore the fact that the German feed-in-tariff is a degressive tariff, ie. the rates paid go down every half year, but that doesn't change the fact that solar is getting cheaper every half year in Germany.

      The current F.I.T. rates are:

      18.33 to 24.43 cents for rooftop solar.

      17.94 to 18.76 cents for ground-based solar.

      Even without additional reductions in feed-in-tariff rates, on July 1st those rates will drop to:

      15.58 to 20.76 for rooftop solar.

      15.25 to 15.95 for ground-based solar.

      And on Jan 1st 2013, they will drop again, to:

      13.93 to 18.57 cents for rooftop solar.

      13.63 to 14.26 cents for ground-based solar.

      So much for that "22 cent" estimate of yours.....

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 04:24:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup. These guys always fudge the numbers. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence, Eric Nelson

        And as I said above, why the heck do they care what we pay over here? I'll never understand that. I sure as hell don't give a rat's ass about what people pay for stuff in the US, unless it is a problem for those who are living at or below poverty level. That isn't much of an issue in Germany because of the safety net.

        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

        by translatorpro on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 05:54:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  My understanding was the 18.57 was in (0+ / 0-)

        Euro cents, not US cents. The conversion is  around 1.25 US cents per Eurocents. Hence the 22 cents (US). My bad for not clarifying the units. By comparison, the wholesale price for electricity (US) is around 3 to about 6.5 depending on the region. In the European market base load wholesale prices seem to be around 4 Euro cents average spot market and around 8 for peak.

        •  So why use only the top rate paid unless you're (0+ / 0-)

          trying to be inaccurate?

          Why completely ignore the fact that it is a degressive tariff and that the rates being paid are going down every six months?

          Why ignore the fact that the tariff is paid for 20 years and then the electricity from the systems becomes the cheapest around?

          And you obviously can't compare the cost of electricity from new generation sources to baseload and peak that comes from old sources that have long been paid off.  To be accurate, you have to compare the cost of electricity from new power plants.  Everything else constitutes a fudging of the numbers.

          In Germany, the cost of wholesale nuclear was between 10.7 and 12.4 Eurocents in 2010.  That's old nuclear.  If you consider that, then 13.63 to 14.26 cents for new ground-based solar starting on Jan., 13 sure doesn't seem all that expensive, especially since it'll drop considerably in the long run.

          The Germans are thinking long-term and that's a good thing for us all.  

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:39:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The Germans would assert that they are... (9+ / 0-)

      ...well aware of the "premium" they are paying for "high priced electricity."

      They prefer to view it as a societal and generational investment that is worth the extra cost given that their ROI deadline is decades into the future, not the next handful of reporting quarters. And there is also the factor of Energy Security that enters into their deliberations. Thus it is less a financial and more of a political/societal measurement as to whether the price they pay for power is "sustainable."

      When you are right you cannot be too radical; when you are wrong, you cannot be too conservative. --Martin Luther King Jr.

      by Egalitare on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 04:34:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly. That kind of thinking seems completely (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus, Calamity Jean

        "foreign" to some posters here. Living in the American bubble will do that to you, and the media being what it is, i.e. with the focus on the US and news from abroad more or less nonexistent (unless it involves a major catastrophe), that's not likely to change. I think people were a bit more broad-minded when they traveled more. What happened to all the college kids who took charter flights and hitchhiked or used Eurail passes around Europe all summer?

        „Wer kämpft, kann verlieren. Wer nicht kämpft, hat schon verloren.“ - Bertolt Brecht

        by translatorpro on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 05:50:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Utterly wrong, as others here have... (4+ / 0-)

      ...shown.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:14:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site