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View Diary: MSM Silent on New Evidence of Asteroid Storm (51 comments)

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  •  gotta' question: (3+ / 0-)

    Leaving aside the issue of effects on societies, it seems to me the central claim here is that Trinitite deposits were found around the world at about the same depth, and that this points to a cluster of large object impacts occurring at that time.

    Is that hypothesis still in play, or has some other explanation been found for the widely-scattered Trinitite deposits?  And what other explanations are considered reasonable for the data?  Seems to me that a large meteorite swarm is more parsimonious than, for example, roughly synchronous volcanic activity worldwide at a time long after such activity had (relatively speaking) quieted down.

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 08:57:49 PM PDT

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    •  Ok (8+ / 0-)

      I can't link easily, but here is a website with links ito some current work by Vance Holiday.  Vance is likely the best Palestinian archaeologist in the nation these days...and also specializes in geological studies in archaeology.

      http://uanews.org/...

      The short version is that the megafauna did not die out fast enough for the impact hypothesis to make sense.  So....even if the meteor swarm did happen, it didn't cause mass extinctions nor did it lead to the collapse of the Clovis people.  So...even if we do have evidence for some sort of meteor event, it simply wasn't that big a deal.

      The likely explanations are far simpler...a combination of gradually changing environment at the end of the last ice age and the over hunting of north American megafauna by a new predator (humans).  There are huge debates as to whether environmental change or human predation was more important....but both clearly played a part.

      "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

      by Empty Vessel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 09:10:19 PM PDT

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      •  Let me add (5+ / 0-)

        The key thing is that the megafauna did not die out quickly...it was gradual.  With that fact established, neither meteors nor volcanos are necessary to explain anything.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 09:12:53 PM PDT

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        •  NOT The key thing (0+ / 0-)

          The key thing is that there is evidence of pretty much world wide meteor impacts.  Impacts that we almost have the technology to prevent.

          To Goldman Sachs in according to their desires, From us in accordance with the IRS.

          by Bluehawk on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 02:36:09 AM PDT

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          •  if there were, we'd have craters (0+ / 0-)

            Even with erosion. Between Montreal and Quebec City there's a crater that's over 200 million years old and it's clearly distingushable from imagery. I'm not seeing the evidence. I'm seeing cherry-picked conclusions. Sorry, I agree with Empty Vessel, and quite frankly, that does not negate the hypothetical threat from an asteroid impact.

            I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

            by terrypinder on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 01:04:27 PM PDT

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      •  And also (6+ / 0-)

        I tried to say vance is the best paleo Indian archaeologist, but my iPad turned it into palestinian.

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 09:13:59 PM PDT

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      •  One more useful link (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terrypinder

        To a discussion by vance holiday

        http://www.argonaut.arizona.edu/...

        "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

        by Empty Vessel on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 09:57:02 PM PDT

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        •  Did you read the diary? Or just start typing? (0+ / 0-)

          Or do you think that evidence of the  impact of a swarm of asteroids 13000 years ago, which JUST HAPPENS to be contemporaneous with a global cooling is not important because it is not an extinction level event or because your favorite palo-biologist/archeologist (who is not in possession of the newly published facts)  once published an opinion that an asteroid did not wipe out the megafauna.  Did he also publish an opinion saying that scientific findings should not receive enough coverage to be widely considered and debated?
          Did you even get to the point about investment in NASA as both a guardian against space rocks and a force for spurring the innovation necessary for our long term happiness if not survival.

          To Goldman Sachs in according to their desires, From us in accordance with the IRS.

          by Bluehawk on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 03:01:09 AM PDT

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          •  Last ice age started to BREAK UP circa 13,000 BP (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            terrypinder

            That was NOT a period of global cooling ...though there is reason to think that the geologically-sudden-and-rapid breakup of the ice cap was precipitated by an impact of the sort mentioned in the OP - which would have introduced enough new heat into the system to destabilize all that ice, and begun a new warming cycle.

            "Kenyan-Muslim-Communistic-Expialidocious!"

            by chmood on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:01:15 AM PDT

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      •  that's a reasonable conclusion. (3+ / 0-)

        Nomadic hunter/gatherers simply shifting locations & strategies to keep up with changes in the populations of animals in the region.  

        That is, there's no need to invoke anything like a mysterious disappearance when simple migration will do.  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 10:29:29 PM PDT

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    •  It's might not be a coincidence that the only (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nuclear winter solstice

      Place that large, diverse  quantities of megafauna still exist is in Africa, where they grew up with people. We snuck up on all the other megafauna populations and they were blindsided by us.

      Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about. Mark Twain

      by Deathtongue on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 12:09:38 AM PDT

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