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View Diary: Record-level deportations continue under Obama Administration (223 comments)

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  •  How many mythical "centrist" swing voters (0+ / 0-)

    are likely to be swayed to vote for Obama, who may have otherwise voted for Romney or not voted at all, by such a TRANSPARENTLY political policy?

    I suspect that the answer is very, very few voters, such that it's unlikely to swing a single electoral vote towards Obama--but may well swing a few districts or states towards a GOP congressman, senator, or local elected official, by alienating local Latinos where the GOP candidate isn't that conservative.

    And yet they're doing this anyway, mistaking the utterly irrelevant and laughable POSSIBLE approval of a small handful of beltway hosebags like Tom Friedman or Mark Halperin for actual political shrewdness (totally apart from the immorality of this policy given how it will hurt thousands of people needlessly).

    He's been doing the same thing on other issues, in order to look "strong" and "serious" in that utterly optical way that ONLY beltway hosebags seem to care about and not see through (and even they probably see through it):

    --Drone strikes

    --Intelligence leaks

    --Aggressively going after whistleblowers

    --Aggressively defending Bush-era GWOT policies against civil suits on bogus "states secrets" and "executive prvilege" grounds

    --Until fairly recently, speaking positively about austerity measures and the the need to reduce the deficit ASAP, even by cutting entitlement programs

    When is this president going to get out of the beltway and back in the real world where almost no one is impressed by such transparently cynical AS WELL AS simply BAD policies? Not just in pretty speeches, but in actual POLICY?!?

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:22:03 PM PDT

    •  These centrists voters aren't mythical and I know (0+ / 0-)

      a lot of moderate voters who voted for Obama and could be duped into believing Romney is a moderate.  I also know moderate voters who do think SS and medicare do need to be restructured and have to have some cuts but are certainly not in favor of the Paul Ryan Budget.  Now I do believe the polling that SS and medicare are popular to the vast majority of Americans but some of the people polled might think that cuts will be so small that they won't notice them or they won't have any impact on their lives.  As for drone strikes, Intelligence links, whistleblowers and the other things you mentioned, a large portion of the American people don't care.  They're too worried about the economy and their jobs.  Also, the American people have the worst memory.  Now I'm glad to see that the majority of them still blame Bush for the economic woes but they didn't care about Valerie Plame or torture then and they won't care about it now.  To the average American, they probably think "Well the people that were tortured were probably terrorists who refused to talk."  9/11 brought out the worst in Americans and they still haven't gotten over it.  Now it's not acceptable that Obama continues these policies but it's not acceptable that our fellow Americans don't care or still support these issues.  So feel free to continue to criticize Obama about all of this, you should, but I urge you to also take control of this argument and get those that don't care or support these policies to not support them or change their view points.  The only real reason these issues are bigger is because it's a black guy doing it.  It's great that people on the left are holding their ground on these issues but these very issues are becoming bigger issues now because people who voted for Bush now give a shit but it's only because it's a black Democrat running the country and in their paranoid, delusional mindset, Obama is getting ready to enslave all the "good white Christians in America".  If McCain had won and was still doing all of this shit, these issues wouldn't be that big.    

      •  What makes you think I'm not doing both? (0+ / 0-)

        That is, arguing against these PR-based policies on merits and politics while also trying to convince people that they're bad policies that shouldn't influence them to vote for or against Obama one way or another.

        Also, while it might well be true that there are "moderate" and "centrist" swing voters who claim to care about these issues and that their votes will depend on how Obama and Romney stand on them, I feel fairly certain that there are far, far fewer swing voters who WILL based their votes on them. These people are fence-sitting not due to national security, immigration or birth control or abortion or gay rights (because seriously, people for whom these are top issues are rarely centrist or swing voters), but on issues that affect them personally, which these days is jobs and the economy.

        It's sort of like the stories you hear about how most people, when asked in polls whether they have anything against black people, say no, because they don't want to be seen as racist, but then are seen to be racist in how they answer other, indirect questions that track with racism. So I tend to discount certain types of claims that such voters make about how they're truly undecided. I think that most of them are pretty much decided, and what will tip the scales will be economic, not other issues. So no, I don't believe that Obama playing the part of tough guy law enforcement save the country from terrorists and illegals dude will get him many votes that he wouldn't otherwise have gotten.

        Also, almost no one who's still on the fence is going to decide to vote for Obama because he's announced that he's going to cut Social Security. Anyone who says they would is almost certainly lying. People don't vote for Dems because they're trying to look conservative. Well, not in states that are almost certainly going to go for Romney anyway, like Nebraska or Oklahoma.

        To the extent that Obama needs to win over swing voters to lock it up, he's not going to do it this way, but rather by convincing them that he's more likely to turn the economy around, and that he has better character and is more concerned about the interests of everyday Americans. But he's NOT going to win it by promising to cut Social Security or deport more illegals. The people who might be impressed by that aren't going to vote for him anyway, by and large.

        GOP Lite triangulation is, has been and always will be a net loser for Dems. What few elected positions it wins us always loses us way more by depressing the base vote, validating GOP policies and reminding voters that Dems stand for nothing.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 07:23:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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