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View Diary: Why the world may change on Sunday (and how it could affect the 2012 election) (291 comments)

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  •  How does that make Tsipras & Syriza "far left" (7+ / 0-)

    and "radical"?

    I strongly object to your using this mainstream media lie to describe what looks like a very reasonable position by Syriza.

    The US and Brit media doesn't hesitate to smear Syriza and the notion of not being under the boot of austerity as "radical". It's not radical, it's sensible.

    24/7, it's all 'Great news for Romney!'

    by doinaheckuvanutjob on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 06:09:01 PM PDT

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    •  "Radical left" is the official campaign name (30+ / 0-)

      "Syriza" is short for "Synaspismos Rizospastikis Aristeras" (Συνασπισμός Ριζοσπαστικής Αριστεράς) which literally translates into "Coalition of the Radical Left."

      On the political spectrum in Greece, Syriza does indeed fall into the "far left" of the spectrum. It's a coalition of splinter groups from the main communist party, Maoists, Trotskyists, and other groups which fall to the left of the socialist party in Greece, PASOK, which has previously dominated electoral politics for generations.

      Only recently, with the collapse of the socialist party have many defected to Syriza, but overall, its coalition still represents views on the far left of the spectrum.

      •  Thanks for clarifying... Perhaps this explanation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        could be put into the diary, if you have done so in the past, then I apologize for jumping on you about it. However, I still object to characterizing this party as simply only radical and far left, if some of them are democratic socialists for example, that is not far left.

        24/7, it's all 'Great news for Romney!'

        by doinaheckuvanutjob on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 06:38:03 PM PDT

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        •  If the "Left" - radical or not, prevails: (11+ / 0-)

          If a government is formed in which austerity is shown to be simple bank manipulation for covering the bank's bad loans - as it was here in the US - and programs to put actual people back to work are put in place. . .

          it is possible that others will see that investment in citizens is the way out.  . .

          Granted, pigs may also fly out my ass.

          "How can the United States be the Greatest Nation ever if it is the only modern nation where citizens hold bake sales to pay for life saving medical care?" Single payer is coming but how many people will die before it becomes the only solution?

          by 4CasandChlo on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 07:49:34 PM PDT

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        •  hey by US standards, that is far left! (0+ / 0-)

          actual socialism would be way left - and we know that the President is no socialist (did he ever claim to be one?)

          I would have more time for Syriza if they had any plans to sort out Greece's actual problems, such as the ludicrous early retirements referred to up thread.  

          OK not a major issue, in the current context, but isn't is an idea to look at the medium term and what needs to be done to make the economy work?  Do we really want to say that it is all down to the bankers, when we know it just isn't?

          •  It's not just a banker issue (13+ / 0-)

            You're absolutely correct. The corrupt system and dysfunctional government in Greece is what made it more suscpetible to the banking crisis. It's why a lot of the institutional reforms that need to be undertaken haven't been enacted.

            I compare it with a person who has a weakened immune system from one disease catching a flu. In a healthy person, they could withstand the sickness. In an already compromised person, it can turn into pneumonia and worse. That's why Greece is in the position it is today. It was weak going into the global recession because of domestic matters, and it's feeling the consequences now of that inherent weakness.

            European banks saw that weakness and took advantage of it, which is why they were so exposed when Greece collapsed.  Insulating European banks and limiting their exposure needed to be a part of the solution, so using the money to pay off bondholders was always a necessary part of the recovery equation. However, I think a lot of reasonable people are arguing that it shouldn't have been the sole part of it.

            Greece needed a stimulus in conjunction with debt service assistance. Austerity should have been coupled with a robust growth strategy in the short and medium term. Unfortunately, that wasn't what happened in practice.

            •  Here is the real solution but no one will accept (4+ / 0-)

              it.  The European banks made a bad investment which needs to be written off.  Credit to the affected countries needs to be tightly controlled so that reforms will have to be implemented to effectively require limited borrowing(essentially balanced budgets).  Trying to make the Greeks pay back loans that should have never happened in the first place is ridiculous.  This reminds me so much of the gun that the banks held to our heads to get us to back stop their insanity, if Europe does not deal with the banks, this could go on forever.

              •  They can't afford to write it off. (0+ / 0-)

                This is hard on the people, no doubt. And as corrupt and vile as it is rigged, we've seen what happens when the banks fail. It isn't pretty here, and it would be disastrous there. Yeah, banking is corrupt and serves the wealthy elite. That's not news. But with Germany being the financial center of Europe - as bad tasting as that may be - their economic pillar is essential to prevent contagion.

                This is the same as the Fed going in to buy up toxic assets so big banks didn't have to write it off which would have blown a hole in their balance sheets and turned this crisis into a full blown Second Depression. It's not pretty, but nothing's pretty at this point.

                Why is nobody talking about Germany pulling out of the Euro and leaving the other crisis countries to devalue and export? No it's not pretty, but it's an option not discussed that I can see. UK never joined the Euro.

        •  I think the translation is not correct (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          doinaheckuvanutjob, roadbear


          Radical in the USA connotes something quite different than the words in Greek. The root for Synapse is there as well as Rhizome. It translates more toward Margins or Grassroots, think of rhizomatic structures. The notion of radical is a bit different.

          There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

          by upstate NY on Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 09:31:52 AM PDT

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      •  From what I can tell Pasok is institutional left (6+ / 0-)

        Socialist in name, but neither willing to effect real economic or societal changes in the country nor even very reform-minded. The low-hanging fruit of corruption in the taxation system should have been dealt with long ago, but nothing ever seem to get done.

        The GOP is the party of mammon. They mock what Jesus taught.

        by freelunch on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 07:49:47 PM PDT

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      •  In this case, "radical left" = common sense. (15+ / 0-)

        It seems to me that Germany can either get the Greeks to pay the German banks back or Germany can impose its favored austerity plan. Not both.

        It should be obvious that you can't take away someone's job and then expect him to pay back them money he owes. In this case, Germany's austerity plan takes away millions of Greek jobs.

        The only way for Greece to repay the debt is for Greeks to have jobs.

        Barack Obama: Gives people who tortured other people to death a pass, prosecutes whistleblowers. Change we can believe in!

        by expatjourno on Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 12:27:34 AM PDT

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        •  That's the long-term goal, you're right (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          The only way for Greece to repay the debt is for Greeks to have jobs.
          It's a chicken and egg problem though. Job growth isn't happening because Greece is so much repaying its debts.
          •  No, not a chicken and egg problem. (6+ / 0-)

            A very simple problem that was solved in the Depression with economic stimulus.

            Merkel and the Austerians are making the same mistake Hoover made. Hoover have a excuse, though, since few people knew any better at the time. Merkel and the Austerians have no such excuse.

            Barack Obama: Gives people who tortured other people to death a pass, prosecutes whistleblowers. Change we can believe in!

            by expatjourno on Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 01:50:46 PM PDT

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