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  •  there is no such thing as "judeo-christian" (13+ / 0-)

    There is only Christians using that word to justify themselves and their beliefs.

    Jews do not require belief at all, only tribal membership like any other aboriginal people.  Not the same.

    And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

    by Mortifyd on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 11:45:26 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  What school taught you that? (4+ / 0-)

      Apparently, they neglected to mention the existence of the Old Testament--a religious text shared by Jews and Christians.

      Speak the truth, but ride a fast horse.

      by Deep Harm on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 01:04:20 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Being a Jew not a school taught me these things (14+ / 0-)

        WE do not use that term.  Christians who are trying to make themselves legitimate by using our ethnic oral history to support their belief system use it.

        Just because they took a book and misread it doesn't mean we "share" anything.

         it or anything else.

        And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

        by Mortifyd on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 01:23:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the whole idea of faith (4+ / 0-)

          being the most important aspect of religion only goes back to Augustine. You're right. Because faith has been the defining factor in Christianity since then, they project that on everyone else.

          Mitt Romney = Draco Malfoy

          by ubertar on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 02:35:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  re: Romney = Malfoy (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek, Matt Z, vacantlook

            Draco himself had some redeeming depths, and was only a child when it all went down.  He didn't go to Voldy, he went to Mummy - who was all - we are SO out of here and your father is not our problem anymore.

            Lucius is more a good stand in for Mitt - adult, cruel, vain, wealthy, ignorant and proud of it - but when even Voldy asks how you live with yourself - that's pretty much calling you an etch a sketch.  LOL

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 02:45:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The "faith" issue is beside the point (0+ / 0-)

            I feel like I'm talking to the wall, but here goes.

            The point raised in my comment was that the term "Judeo-Christian" derives from overlaps between the two religions, mainly of texts. As pointed out below, there is some basis for such a term, disputing Mortifyd's claim that there is "no such thing." However, that doesn't mean that people can't apply the term in ways that are others consider absurd.

            The Hebrew Bible, or Tanakh, is divided into three parts: (1) the five books of the Torah ("teaching" or "law"), comprising the origins of the Israelite nation, its laws and its covenant with the God of Israel; (2) the Nevi'im ("prophets"), containing the historic account of ancient Israel and Judah focusing on conflicts between the Israelites and other nations, and conflicts among Israelites – specifically, struggles between believers in "the LORD God" and believers in foreign gods, and the criticism of unethical and unjust behavior of Israelite elites and rulers; and (3) the Ketuvim ("writings"): poetic and philosophical works such as the Psalms and the Book of Job.

            The Christian Bible is divided into two parts. The first is called the Old Testament, containing the (minimum) 39 books of Hebrew Scripture, and the second portion is called the New Testament, containing a set of 27 books.

            Speak the truth, but ride a fast horse.

            by Deep Harm on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 04:04:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  here's the thing (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ubertar

              We didn't give the books to you.  We didn't say that our books, laws or culture were right for anyone else.  And despite what some old rabbis might say - it's not the Truth about G-d, it's the story of the Jewish people and our culture, taboos, dreams, thoughts, ideas and hardships.  It is our geneology and our Dream Time.  It is Truth in that sense, but as a literal basis for a belief system - not so much.  And I'm religious.

              That you believe they are literal and support your belief system is your own deal, it still has nada to do with the Jewish people or culture.

              I do not classify Judaism as a religion.  It is a cultural state of being - one is a Jew or one is not.  A tribal identity with specific requirements for membership - be born of a Jewish woman or be adopted in a ceremony often called "conversion."  

              Whether one observes the traditions of our people doesn't impact membership - and belief is immaterial despite what many people themselves sincerely believe.

              So to me the idea that Christians somehow own the "Old Testament" because they use it to prop up their belief system - and it is a belief system, not a tribal identity - is not only offensive when you think about it as I do, but also ridiculous.

              The term is used to legitimise Christianity by tying it with an older cultural system that is required to make the case of Christianity.  It is not respectful, embracing, inclusive or peaceful - it is a sign of gross misunderstanding and beliefcentric thought by Christians.

              And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

              by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 04:46:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's quite a bias you're carrying around (0+ / 0-)

                Doesn't it feel a bit heavy after awhile?

                You say Christians are "not respectful, embracing, inclusive or peaceful."  Should they then follow the example of the leadership of Israel in their treatment of Palestinians?

                Assuming that all Christians behave as you suggest is no more accurate than assuming that all Jews behave the same.  How about we just ditch the assumptions and let relationships develop naturally by pursuing common goals?  I hear that works pretty well.

                Speak the truth, but ride a fast horse.

                by Deep Harm on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 08:52:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Don't bring IP into this (0+ / 0-)

                  I am an American Jew, I have never been to Israel, nor do I plan to go until there is need to - and Shimi Kohen isn't BBQing this week at the Temple.

                  How about you stop telling me what my experiences which Christians and their "love for Jews" are like and understand maybe we're not actually down with being BFFs because Christians say so.

                  If you use the term "Judeo-Christian" you are offending Jews.  You are claiming legitimacy for Christianity on the back of another ethnic group.  That is what you are doing, whether you think of it that way or admit it - it's still what you are doing.

                  I don't care about Christians or what they believe privately - I care about them using us to prop themselves up and legislate their creepy laws on my country.  And that shit and the word they use to justify it with my Torah - are offensive and need to be called out.

                  I'm sorry if that is hard for you to get your head around - but we aren't pets for Christians.

                  And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                  by Mortifyd on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:51:23 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I know some completed Jews who would disagree with (0+ / 0-)

                Most freely gave their culture! Who are you to speak for them!? They did not ask your permission, or your consent! They might be very mad at you!

              •  Jewish (0+ / 0-)

                Jews don’t believe in Jesus. Muslims think Jesus is just a prophet. Christians believe that Jesus is God. Mormons believe that Jesus is the son of god. Now you can’t both be God and not be God that is impossible. The Jewish, Mormon, Muslim and Christian God are not the same God. You can's all be right but you can all be wrong.

                •  ...Christians believe Jesus is the son of God... (0+ / 0-)

                  ...Mormons believe Jesus and Joseph Smith are of equal stature that's why Joseph Smith and Jesus sit on either side of the Mormon's God Elohim as they then decide if a Mormon who has died gets to get into the Celestial Kingdom which is around the planet Kolob which is where Elohim lives...

                  Ignorance is bliss only for the ignorant. The rest of us must suffer the consequences. -7.38; -3.44

                  by paradise50 on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 12:53:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  Very true. That point is driven home by the (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd, Cassandra Waites, kyril

          existence of Replacement Theology. Something that I think most Jewish people should or would find offensive and disturbing.

          Please correct me if I am wrong.

        •  the term used by Jews for scripture: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd, kyril

          From what I've read from other folks here, the correct term is "The Hebrew Bible", is that right?  

          "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

          by G2geek on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 11:35:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yep, but it can also be called other things - (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek, Cassandra Waites, kyril

            depends on how much of it is in the book you're holding.  A Tanach holds the Written Torah (5 books of Moses, Pentateuch, Torah) along with the writings - not prophecy but poetry, cultural stories, Psalms, Esther, etc.  as well at Prophets.  Some people Christians consider prophets aren't.

            Each week at shul there is the weekly Torah portion or Parsha, plus a Haftorah - a reading from other books that is related to the Torah reading of the week.  So you can also get each book of Moses separately with commentaries from the Oral Torah (Talmud) as well and build a set.

            Pretty much any book having to do with Jewish culture or tradition can be referred to as a Torah, but sometimes we really mean the one from Moses.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:00:31 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Einstein (0+ / 0-)

              “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything ‘chosen’ about them.” Einstein

          •  I should mention that "scripture" (4+ / 0-)

            is only one way to look at it.  I'm chassidic, but I'm not typical in my belief system or lack of it necessarily within my culture - but I'm not outside of it either.

            Torah and all the various subconcepts that word can mean within Jewish culture is a collection of dreams, myths, geneologies, morality tales, taboos - it is far more than scripture and far less at the same time.  

            We don't have to agree on it as a cultural group because we've had several thousand years to get used to being ourselves and handle variation - we call it minhag - custom.  

            As long as you meet the basic requirements - being born to a Jewish mum or being adopted in a culturally recognised ceremony often called "conversion" then you're a Jew.  

            What you "believe" only excludes the statements of faith of other cultures - there are atheist Jews who are very active culturally and "religiously" because they can be one in the same in our universe.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:09:06 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  so then should non-Jews be calling it.... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pasadena beggar, kyril, Mortifyd

              .... the Torah?  Or should we say "the Jewish scriptures" to mean inclusively something larger?  

              BTW, a friend of mine converted to Judaism because he felt called to the faith and to become a Rabbi.  From the way he described all the studying and examination and so on, it sounds like becoming a Jew is like going for a PhD.  I really respect that.

              And I very much appreciate the complex approach to identity in terms of a combination of tribal or ethnic factors, cultural factors, and religious factors, any combination of which can be included.

              The Basques have something interesting that's related in a way: they define their ethnicity by their language (which is a unique language in Europe), and their name for their own people means essentially "speakers of our language."  Like the Jews, the Basques have a long history of a ferociously intellectually capable culture that has survived against unfavorable odds.  

              "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

              by G2geek on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:21:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The Jewish Scriptures would work I guess (0+ / 0-)

                since people don't grasp that "religiosity" doesn't mean the same thing in our universe.

                We make it hard because it is adoption - your friend is now a Jew.  They cannot be de-Jewed - they can only be a bad Jew if they stop being Jewish.  That is a state of being, not a creed you can just drop.

                I like the Basques, they are cool.  but then I like anyone who holds onto their ethnic identity when they are told to get rid of it.  Roma are badass for the same reason to me.

                And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:46:17 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  thank you! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd

          judeo-christian is a made up concept and it's idiotic as hell, and also demeaning. it did not exist prior to WWII.

          indeed, if we were as "judeo-christian" as modern fundies keep saying, we wouldn't have turned back boatloads of Jewish refugees in the 30s, the majority of whom died in the Holocaust.

          I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

          by terrypinder on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:24:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not quite (0+ / 0-)

            It became common in the 1940s, but the term dates from the early 19th century, and the concept goes back to the Enlightenment.  

            •  it's still sick and needs to stop (0+ / 0-)

              because it's a LIE being used by ignorant Christians to further their own belief that they are a completion or continuation of our culture - which they are decidedly NOT.

              And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

              by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:58:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Christianity is theoretically based on Christ (0+ / 0-)

          and has the teachings of Jesus the Christ, man or myth, in the bible. If that were the heart of it, it would be quite a fine and loving thing. The judge not, love one another, doing for the least of their brethren hardly seems the basis however often they say Christ, Christ.

          The select worst of the old testament seems to fit fundamentalist christians with all it's smiting and abominations and judging... they like the ot dad lots better than the son.

          Jews have the old testament. No offense but as a group Jews seem to follow the teachings of Christ a lot better than many Christians
          So we can't blame the book

          If you don't like "judeo-christian and being linked with them imagine how  Jesus the Christ would feel looking at what christian has become. Shaking his head with a sad "oy vey"

          •  Um point of order (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mookins

            Yeah, I'm sorry, it IS offensive.  Jews follow the Torah.  Jesus, the lead martyr of the Christian faith was a JEW.  That would be why we seem more "Christ like" - he was one of us, not the other way around.

            The very idea that Jesus was a Christ - is offensive to Jews.  Xerxes was a Christ.  Aleksander the Great was a Christ.  We know - we put the oil on their heads and named them as such - since it means "annointed with oil."

            We did no such thing to Jesus.  Stop calling our books old, stop relying on them to prop up your faith, leave us the hell out of it - and the nice Jewish boy who would be HORRIFIED at what has become of his memory.

            OY VEY indeed.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:55:58 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Actually there's a shared world view: (0+ / 0-)

          the ideas of good and evil, of guilt and expiation are common to Judaism and to Christianity.

          That framework is not common to eastern religions such as Buddhism,

          Democrats promote the Common good. Republicans promote Corporate greed.

          by murasaki on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 06:55:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  not as much as you think (0+ / 0-)

            The world view I have as a Jew is body and earth positive, non focused on the afterlife and deeply personal.  I go to shul to daven with people when I feel like it, there is no need to do so.

            I do not need to be forgiven or blessed. I do not need to confess.  I do not need to fear.   I do not need to recite a creed.  I do not need to practise any mitzvah at all to still be a good Jew.

            Judaism holds with reincarnation and karma - it holds with a lot of things that aren't expected.  Particle physics, quantum physics, it's just interesting the way being a Jew affects the world around you.

            Christianity assumes Judaism "functions" as a "faith" the same way Christianity does - it doesn't.  Until Christians can wrap their heads around that - then we have very little in common other than a decidedly ugly historical connection that is not impressive from my side of the picture.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:16:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Traditionally, there actually have been (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, kyril, murasaki

      a small number of normative Jewish beliefs. Here is the most accepted list, authored by the great medieval rationalist philosopher and authority on Jewish religious law, Maimonides:

      http://www.ou.org/...

      •  Very interesting! (7+ / 1-)

        Some of those items of faith don't mesh with modern science either (leaving aside the entire question of the existence of a deity), but they don't have to; and the thing that's critically important for us here to understand is:

        It's one thing for a group of people to have a set of beliefs.

        It's another thing for a group of people to seek to impose its set of beliefs on the entire culture at-large.  

        Non-Jewish progressives have no issues with Jews or others over beliefs.  The issue we have is squarely with "crusading" denominations, be they Dominionism in Christianity, or the Taliban in Islam, that seek to impose their will upon others by the force of law and by brute force.  

        ---

        And, I would add, the "New Atheists" are doing nobody a favor with their own crusading attitudes against religion.  The pragmatic political arguement on this is conclusive: do not draw your dividing lines such as to make yourself an isolated minority against a large majority; that path is doomed to failure.  Instead, draw your dividing lines such as to bring your minority together with others to form a sufficiently powerful majority as to succeed.  

        So let me be really blunt about this:  

        The New Atheists need the rest of us (faithful, agnostic, and oldschool atheist, all included) more than any of us need them.   If the New Atheists don't cut the strident crusading bullshit such as flinging unprovoked ad-hominems at progressive people of faith in online discussions, they will only succeed in alienating everyone else and isolating themselves.  

        The fight against Dominionism, an enemy that now even denies solar fusion (!), is too damn important to risk over petty factionalism.  This is a time when the largest possible coalition across the largest possible philosophical spectrum, is needed on the front lines.  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 11:49:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  HR'ed for hateful lying about atheists. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril

          Are you proud of yourself for resorting to lying about atheists like that and projecting your OWN unprovoked crusading bullshit onto us?

          When you insist that atheists must stop calling religion wrong in order to work against dominionism, what you are essentially saying is "You can be an atheist as long as you shut the hell up about it and never mention why you think what you do."

          There is nothing strident about a Christian saying "It's wrong to keep waiting for the messiah because he already came" to a Jew, but why is it strident for an atheist to be similarly blunt about what they think?

          You keep dishonestly misrepresenting straight honest speaking as stridency.  It's a common problem.  It comes from the fact that when talking about religion, people are so used to speaking in post-modernist non-communicative ways that it seems like a blow to the head for someone to simply be straightforward.

          And I for one am sick and tired of you constantly misrepresenting an entire movement time and time again.  Hence the HR.

          •  HR abuse, not to mention bad reasoning. (7+ / 0-)

            I can't toss you a donut because it's a TOS violation to toss donuts in a personal fight.  However you have easily succeeded in making my point for me, and you will probably attract a few donuts without me having to lift a finger.  

            I've run across plenty of crusading New Atheists on this site: the ones who pop up in any diary on religion and post comments like "until you delusional idiots stop believing in Sky Faeries we're all fucked."  I'm going to start HR-ing those kinds of comments as ad-hom attacks whenever I see them.  

            Any Christian who got in the face of any Jew on this site about whether the Messiah came or is pending, would get HR'd out of here right quick, and you know it.  My standard is this: if it's bigotry to say it to a Jew, it's bigotry to say it to a Christian, or a Muslim, or a Pagan, or an atheist, an agnostic, a secular humanist, a Spinozist, or a neo-Platonist.  

            As for where I'm coming from about religion, it's somewhere between Albert Einstein and Aldous Huxley.  I won't even bother trying to explain my belief system here, but I've posted bits of it all over the site if you bother to look for them.

            BTW, I hang out on sites where the "new atheist vs. old atheist" debate goes on in much detail, and most of the oldschool atheists are also fed up with the more extreme tactics of the new atheists.  This isn't about "atheism" any more than the dislike of Black Bloc tactics is about "Occupy": it's about being fed up with tactics that are counterproductive and that sabotage the movement as a whole.

             

            "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 04:09:04 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I can. and have. (0+ / 0-)
            •  Wrong. (0+ / 0-)

              You can't toss me a donut because what I did was correct.

              The fact that you lied again here helps prove my point.  You know perfectly well that you're projecting when you misrepresent new atheists like this.  I haven't seen every one of your posts, but I have seen several where you make this accusation baselessly - enough to know it's a trend with you to pretend an atheist said something they didn't just so you can pretend you're being the reasonable one when what you're actually doing is telling atheists to shut the hell up and go back to the old ineffective methods of never calling out hypocrisy and always being too timid to speak our minds.  That time is over.  Get over it.  Telling us not to rock the boat is telling us to remain as ineffective as the old-school (as you incorrectly call them) accomodationists.

          •  I don't agree with G2geek on much, but I do agree (7+ / 0-)

            on this one.  The New Atheists can and are pretty obnoxious about religion in general, which is one of the reasons I don't take them seriously as a cultural force.   Insulting other people and implying that they're too stupid to join the people who know THE TRUTH is not a way to be anything more than a marginal group.

            And yes, I have read some New Atheist works, so please do not lecture me about how I'd understand if I only read Richard Dawkins or PZ Myers.  I've read Myers and don't agree with him, and there is nothing wrong with that.  

            •  It isn't insulting people to insult their (0+ / 0-)

              beliefs.  To say otherwise is to assume people are incapable of thinking and thus their beliefs are set in stone.

              There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, but there is something very wrong with lying about the opposing person to belittle thier argument, for example to deliberately pretend that insulting a religion is identical to insulting a person.

          •  If you removed your HR of G2geek's comment, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril

            I'd tip this comment.  I object to G2g's comment as well, but it isn't HR worthy.

          •  i think you should withdraw your HR (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pasadena beggar

            even though I agree with your point. as a gnu atheist (oh noes!) i have no intention of ever, ever shutting up or toning it down.

            I'm struck by how the meanest, cruelest, nastiest people brag about how they live in a Christian nation. It's rather telling.

            by terrypinder on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:33:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  HR'd for HR abuse (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek

            Ya don't get to HR because you feel snubbed.

            And honestly, you'd expect a religion without a God to be more tolerant, not less...

            •  Yes. Atheism is a religion like not-stamp (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vacantlook, PSzymeczek

              collecting is a hobby.  Or like abstinence is a sexual position.

              As for your crack about atheists and intolerance, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

            •  What religion? (0+ / 0-)

              Or are you joining in that lie too?

            •  I didn't HR for being snubbed (0+ / 0-)

              I HR'ed for his telling hateful lies about a group, which is against policy.  It is not allowed to do that and I'm testing if dailykos is going to be hypocritical about that and make an exception when the group is new atheists.  The moderators are perfectly willing to validate HRs when a poster repeatedly maligns a religious group with false claims, but are they willing to do so when an opposing group is attacked in the same manner, post after post after post by the same person?

              By the way it's been almost a week and I've gotten no reprimand or anything like that for my correct action.

        •  Uprated by this old-school atheist (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, Robobagpiper, Ahianne, Ellid

          The donut-tosser did a good job of making G2geek's point for him, but he doesn't deserve any credit for doing so. Quite the opposite.

          If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse. --Mark Crislip

          by ebohlman on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 03:47:32 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a Gnu Atheist. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kyril

          I disagree with you emphatically.  In your hat with that "strident crusading bullshit".  

        •  If you look carefully at Maimonides' principles (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mortifyd

          none are really amenable to empirical proof or disproof. Hence they present no problem for science.

        •  atheists need God.............. (0+ / 0-)

          to not believe in.


          "A recent study reveals Americans' heads are larger than they were 150 years ago but sadly there is no indication that the extra room is used for anything." - entlord

          by AlyoshaKaramazov on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 03:20:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Same old mild dominionist bullshit, "we (0+ / 0-)

          get to spew as much of our stuff as we see fit, wheneve, wherever, public meetings, etc and you heretics just STFU." Not helpful, dude.

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt -- caucus99percent

          by enhydra lutris on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 10:48:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  But you are indeed correct that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mortifyd, G2geek, PSzymeczek

      there is no such thing as "judeo-christian".

      •  the language I use... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ebohlman, Ahianne, kyril

        .... is "Judaic and Christian" (to emphasize that each tradition stands on its own) or "Abrahamic traditions" (to emphasize the common ground among them, including Islam).  

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 11:51:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Mostly they use it as cover (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mortifyd, G2geek, kyril, PSzymeczek

      They tacked on the prefix "Judeo" in order to disguise their antisemitism. After all, you can't claim they're biased if they toss a verbal bone to that other religion...

    •  That is ridiculous (0+ / 0-)

      Good God, are you serious?  "Aboriginal people"?  

      head desk

      •  well all people are aboriginal (0+ / 0-)

        but think about it for a minute without rolling your eyes.

        Jews are a tribal matrilinial culture from the middle east who have sucessfully made our culture portable and sustainable despite being forced out of our traditional homes - we call it the diaspora, maybe you've heard of it?

        We're no different than the Yanomamo, the Dine, the Arapaho - we are a tribal people with our own land or origin and cultural beliefs that revolve around that area.

        Our only "difference" is that we adapted to western culture and thrived despite it - we didn't die out or accept reservations as our lot.

         You wouldn't tell an Arapahoe their traditions are not theirs - but people tell Jews that shit all the time.

        And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

        by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 12:06:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The sarcasm is not necessary (0+ / 0-)

          Neither is the last sentence.  

        •  Ah, now I understand (0+ / 0-)

          You agree with Allen Hertz of American Thinker.  

          That explains a great deal.

          •  no idea who that is but I will have to look him up (0+ / 0-)

            You try looking at it from my point of view - the default belief culturally is that Christians own my cultures heart and have elevated it to a place where the rest of the world is shit scared some president Fundie is going to blow it up.

            If we complain about it - we're ignorant or selfish, depending on which Christian theological argument you want to go with - we can't read and don't understand they are right, or we intentionally are trying to exclude them from the most awesome thing ever because we are greedy, sneaky selfish assholes.  

            That right there is the basis of antisemitism in the west.  The need for non-Jews to get in on the deal with or without our agreement - and whether or not what they want has anything to do at all with what we actually offer.

            It is offensive, it does get tiresome and sometimes a little sarcasm is definitely needed when your voice is being dismissed.

            And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

            by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:04:54 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your anger is directed at the wrong target (0+ / 0-)

              I am not a right-wing fundamentalist trying to appropriate your culture.  Why are you taking out your justifiable anger at them on a Unitarian?  

              •  I'm not angry (0+ / 0-)

                I'm resigned to people like you that support the Christian appropriation and definition of Jewish culture and when directly faced with why that might be offensive to an aboriginal person - you are even MORE dismissive.

                So you can think you are above it being a Unitarian or whatever - but the fact that you go along with the bullshit means you yourself are part of the problem and supporting the fundamentalist mindset that is ripping apart the US.

                And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                by Mortifyd on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 08:43:24 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thank you for insulting me (0+ / 0-)

                  and alienating a potential ally.  I greatly appreciate it.

                  •   your"help" (0+ / 0-)

                    and being an "ally" is neither from my point of view.  You really need to make this about you and being right - and I don't get that.

                    Just because you learned it that way - that's not how I see it.  Ethnocentrism in scholarship is a real issue - ask anyone who is non-white.

                    I learned about the War of Northern Aggression in grade 4 in Alabama.  I later came to understand that all the textbooks and teachers that supported that view were not really telling me the truth.  But they believed they were because that is what THEY learned too.

                    Get over yourself and your being above it all - because you're not since you need to have people agree with you.

                    Not gonna happen, get on with your day.

                    And we sail and we sail and we never see land, just the rum in the bottle and a pipe in my hand...

                    by Mortifyd on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 12:23:58 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  um, (0+ / 0-)


      "A recent study reveals Americans' heads are larger than they were 150 years ago but sadly there is no indication that the extra room is used for anything." - entlord

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 03:18:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That is a lie and you know IT! (0+ / 0-)

      In fact there is a third rail: Islam! You really need to stop reading the Bircher books!

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