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  •  Maybe he needs to learn or invent a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Going the Distance

    different word, since myth is of long standing meaning.

    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

    by enhydra lutris on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 02:11:10 PM PDT

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    •  too late for that, for JC at least. He's been gone (2+ / 0-)
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      RonV, kyril

      for some time now.

      Mitt Romney = Draco Malfoy

      by ubertar on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 02:31:41 PM PDT

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    •  myth and metaphor are interchangeable (1+ / 0-)
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      in his work

      "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

      by Going the Distance on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 08:29:29 PM PDT

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    •  what do you call the thing you board on a train? (8+ / 0-)

      A car.  

      Oh wait a moment...!

      Methinks you should get over the fact that the term "myth" has two common and accepted meanings.  Otherwise, you should start calling that thing on a train a "carriage."  

      Really: nitpicking in the face of a concerted and determined enemy such as dominionism, is a guaranteed way to LOSE.

      "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Sun Jun 17, 2012 at 11:33:54 PM PDT

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      •  You cannot fight dominionism and praise myth (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pasadena beggar

        It's not a minor point.  Not one bit.  When someone starts calming that the solution is to invent new myths, it's vital to be clear how horrible that would actually be if using the more common meaning of "myth" and not Josef Campbell's meaning.  (And you know what?  It's pretty bad using his meaning too since his meaning is just a smokescreen for "deciding morality through storytelling instead of through the actual facts at hand.")

        You cannot successfully fight dominionism and at the same time try to save Christianity.  Lots of liberal Christians are trying.  Its futile.  Once you push the idea that morality is a matter of faith you lose any ability to successfully argue against the dominionists.

        And no, I'm not accusing you of failing to want to get rid of dominionism.  I'm accusing you of using methods that are guaranteed to be futile.

        When dominionists read a message of dominion in the texts of Christianity, it's one of the few times they're NOT lying.  The core problem is the use of Christianity as a guide in the first place.

        •  you can't fight pornography and praise music. (8+ / 0-)

          Everybody knows that popular music is full of explicit lyrics, that drive up demand for porn...

          And I take it you never read fiction either?  After all, "storytelling"...  And if the answer is "I don't pretend to learn anything from it, I only read it for entertainment," that doesn't cut it either: entertainment = the stimulation of emotions.

          What I find amusing, is the species of rationalist that has zero tolerance for metaphor: that is exactly the same kind of extreme concrete thinking that characterizes religious fundamentalists.  

          Conflating Dominionism with all of Christianity is absurd and you know it.  How'bout write us the dialog you'd have had with Martin Luther King about that?

          Speaking of futility, are you so sure you want to consign everyone who believes in a deity to "enemy" status, or even "sympathizer with enemy"...?   That's a real good way to lose votes, lose elections, and become an isolated tiny minority.

          As a matter of principle, the progressive left needs to encompass everyone who believes in core progressive principles such as sustainability, equality under the law, economic democracy, and public policy set in accord with science.  Religious progressives also agree with the latter point because they understand that secular beats sectarian every time when it comes to preserving freedom of conscience and preventing theocracy.  

          As a matter of pragmatism, the progressive left needs to encompass everyone who believes in core progressive principles (etc. etc.).  That's how to build the largest possible coalition to defeat the extreme right.  

          We're at war on four fronts: the class war, the culture war, the sustainability war, and the basic sanity war.   The religious right as it presently exists is a creature (as in "create-ure") of the plutocrats (they "created" it by pumping it up with money to become their captive voting bloc).  If we want to defeat the religious right we must also defeat the plutocracy.  Doing that requires a large coalition.  Including people whose morals derive from myths in either sense of the word.  

          "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

          by G2geek on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 03:39:28 AM PDT

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          •  Very well said. I'd recc this comment but my (0+ / 0-)

            ability to recommend has been disabled for some reason. I don't know why, and I don't know who to complain to about it.

            "Mistress of the Topaz" is now available in paperback! Link here:

            by Kimball Cross on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 12:34:31 AM PDT

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          •  The imaginary person you're arguing with (0+ / 0-)

            isn't me.

            You lie by pretending that rationalists are making arguments they are not.  You pretend the imaginary  bullshit you put in their mouths actually represents their arguments when it doesn't.  

            For you and other hard-of-thinking people let me make this clear:  There is a gigantic difference between saying you won't work with someone for pragmatic reasons and saying you think they are incorrect.  I can work with you while at the same time telling you you are dead wrong.  If you disagree with that claim then what you are asking for is NOT alliance, but compliance which is not the same thing.

            As a matter of pragmatism, the progressive left needs to encompass everyone who believes in core progressive principles (etc. etc.).  That's how to build the largest possible coalition to defeat the extreme right.  
            You can start by no longer spewing lies here on daily kos about atheists.  Or do you want this to be a one-way street that benefits you only?
        •  It's probably not a question of (5+ / 0-)

          praising or condemning myth, nor one of inventing new ones. It's a question of incorporating it effectively into our intellectual lives.

          Humans are storytellers. We've been doing it as long as we've had language, and probably almost as long as we've been making tools. It's deep in our evolutionary makeup, and a couple of brief centuries of scientific inquiry arent going to change that.

          I'm as much of a skeptic and a rationalist as anyone, but the power of storytelling is plain to me. Just as I read non fiction to help me understand the world around me, I read great novels because those stories teach me something about humanity and my place in it.

          one of the great failings of the modern left is its reluctance, or maybe its inability, to use storytelling as a way to explain its purposes. We expect people to be moved to our side without appealing to their emotions or instincts. But we are atill animals, and it is useless to deny that we still operate as animals in many ways. The right has no such problem.

          And intentionally "invented" stories won't hack it, either. These stories have to emerge from deep within our collective psyche if they are to have emotional power.

          "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

          by sidnora on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 03:44:50 AM PDT

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        •  Of course you can (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          The core problem is NOT that Dominionists are distorting Christianity.  The core problem is that R.J. Rushdoony's works are considered just as important as the Bible by a bunch of John Bircher clones who want power and are willing to use religion if that's what it takes to get it.

    •  Myth has a negative meaning in popular speech, (1+ / 0-)
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      but it's also a technical term in philosophy, lit crit, and other fields, which is much more neutral and descriptive.

      Christian theologian Rudolph Bultmann described the "myth of Christ," causing many fundamentalist heads to explode.  Including a few friends of mine.  ^_^

      Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

      by Boundegar on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 09:36:11 AM PDT

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    •  Facism (0+ / 0-)

      "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

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