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View Diary: 71 Billion ? – Forget the Corporations, Tax the Churches (313 comments)

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  •  A book by Hitchens? (4+ / 0-)

    You could not find a more biased source if you tried.

    Anyone trying to discount the influence of, e.g., the Quakers in the abolitionist movement is full of so much shit they qualify as an EPA Superfund site.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 06:09:02 AM PDT

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    •  okay whoa (7+ / 0-)

      Let's not bash Hitchens either.  Biased yes, but Hitchens does back up his assertions with facts.

      However, your comments about the Quakers should be underscored in this "conversation", though that term implies a level of civility not readily apparent here at the moment.  If people are seriously overlooking Quakers as Abolitionists then they are either being willfully ignorant or are woefully unread.

      The Quakers of Pennsylvania had an official Anti-Slavery organization founded before Jefferson ever penned the Declaration of Independence.  They proposed the first outright BAN on Slavery in Pennsylvania in 1696..only a mere 164 years before the Civil War.

      Also... no one should be overlooking Presbyterian minister John Rankin either.  

      Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

      by Wisper on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 06:59:44 AM PDT

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      •  Much of the Underground Railroad... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Amber6541

        had religious folk who were the station keepers.

        Quakers.

        Universalists.

        And Parker, who I referred to earlier, was known to keep a loaded gun on the desk he wrote his sermons at, so that he could -- if necessary -- go to the defense of those he was sheltering.

        I'm not hostile to atheists. I am, however, devoted to truth, and if there's a list of notable abolitionists who led the movement and were so responsible for it... I want to know who they were.

        "Be just and good." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson

        by ogre on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:57:22 AM PDT

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        •  There are athiest abolitionists (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aliasalias, Amber6541

          John Stuart Mill

          Ralph Waldo Emerson

          Jeremy Bentham

          William Lloyd Garrison was a vocal critic of the church and denounced a lot of the hierarchy and structure, but overall, I suppose I'd still say he was a Christian.

          Early American thought was greatly influenced by France, and we considered each other to be brothers in liberty having both waged successful revolutions against Monarchy.... and the French were VIOLENTLY atheistic and yet abolished slavery as law.

          Thomas Paine was a Deist at best.

          Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

          by Wisper on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 02:53:48 PM PDT

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          •  Thanks, but... off the rails. (0+ / 0-)

            Mill isn't part of the Boston Abolitionists. Nor is Bentham. I wasn't suggesting there were no Atheists opposed to slavery. I was objecting to the claim that they were the heavy lifters out of the Boston area. Not so.

            Emerson, an atheist? Emerson was a Unitarian, and a minister. He stepped down from his pulpit and had some very testy things to say about some of the people in pulpits... -- and went off to the public speaking circuit (which was much more profitable in the day) -- but he never repudiated his status as a minister, and he continued to provide 'pulpit supply' (preaching) in various Unitarian churches, when asked, for the rest of his life. He was a Transcendentalist, and a Unitarian. (Unitarian Universalism now includes many atheists, including atheist ministers--but not in Emerson's day.)

            "Be just and good." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson

            by ogre on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 11:01:13 PM PDT

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