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View Diary: Ann Romney's drugged horse, Super Hit. (287 comments)

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  •  Please read the complaint at the Buzzfeed link, (5+ / 0-)
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    jfromga, Jane Lew, highacidity, Lisa, burlydee

    all those questions are answered.

    2012: the Year of the Voting Woman. And by the way, Republicans ... we're pretty pissed about what you've done to our country. Republican Party Motto: "Tax the poor, gift the rich"

    by mumtaznepal on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:20:56 AM PDT

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    •  Super Hit's show record (1+ / 0-)
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      Catherine Norris showed him two years after she bought him - 2008, so claiming they sold her a defective horse is very questionable
      She did poorly - 57% so obviously she wasn't happy.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:28:50 AM PDT

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      •  and, perhaps she did "poorly" because the (7+ / 0-)

        horse was physically incapable of doing what he was represented as being capable of doing?

        if i purchased a horse from a trainer such as eberling who sold him as a dressage prospect while KNOWING the physical limitation and hid it by drugging the horse, i would be soundly p*ssed when the horse was incapable of performing.

        the horse, btw, not the rider, is what is judged in dressage.

        the rider's score is a small percentage of that test score.

        stop defending the indefensible.

        eberling drugged the horse to mask the physical problem.  the woman was told the horse was capable of performing when eberling knew full well it couldn't.  furthermore, when the woman discoverd the fraud, especially the blood test and drug results, she had EVERY right to sue and seek redress.

        now, why are you defending this action by the romneys and eberling?  do you CONDONE this type of fraud?  from reading your last post where you try to blame the purchaser, it sounds like you support eberling and romney.

        •  Perhaps (1+ / 0-)
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          or perhaps not. Or perhaps. Or perhaps not. Who knows.

          Thanks for the tip about how dressage is judged. (I was a judge at the Atlanta Olympics BTW).

          Not every rider is capable of getting on a schoolmaster and getting the moves out of that horse that a professional is. Sounds like Super Hit wasn't an amateur's ride. Despite the fact that the horse's performance is scored, it greatly depends on the rider and what they are capable of.

          The only reason there would have been a blood test is if she ordered one in her PPE so if she ordered it and ignored the results, she has no one but herself to blame.

          I'm not defending or condoning it as I explained way way back. There is much richer sources available to hit (Mitt) Romney on, on things that are important to Americans, like outsourcing jobs to China, than the esoterica of the horse industry which he is tangentially involved in at best and Ann may or may not have known about, if there is even any liability on her part.

          BTW it's Ebeling.

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 01:26:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  but the court records (1+ / 0-)
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            make it pretty clear that the prepurchase vet emailed Amy Ebeling about it and didn't disclose it to Ms. Norris.

            You probably know these people personally if you are an O judge for FEI, so maybe you aren't the most unbiased source for defending what is 'ok'.  In fact, your life, to get to O stature pretty much depends on the big money that flows into dressage from people like the Romneys.

            If you were assisting a client to locate a prospect, and the prepurchase vet told the seller about problems and not your client, would you have a different opinion of the actions?   Because apparently deposition testimony made it clear that the tox screen results were not shared.

            The 2005 exrays were by a different vet, one that worked routinely with the horse, and who apparently, based on his records, administered two of the four drugs before the pre-purchase.  He also administered the steroid injections and hylauronic acid injections between 2005 and 2008 just to the left front. The 2008 xrays were by Dr. Herthel the prepurchase vet.  There were 2009 xrays after Ms. Norris suspected physical issues were part of the problem.  

            The cycnicism of 'buyer beware' when someone or a number of someones work together to conceal test results is pretty disheartening.  I would think an O judge would want dressage to be cleaner than that.  I would hope an O judge cared more about horses than that.

          •  on a side note, how did you like metallic? (1+ / 0-)
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            he was such  a puppydog - i got to watch him before he was ever backed all the way through his training.  he was so willing and happy and enjoyed every moment of his work!

            anne is one of the best trainers i've ever seen (that is why i am so harsh on eberling).  as anne said, you can get much farther with sugar than with punishment!

            i totally agree with you about schoolmasters being harder to ride.  if you don't ask correctly, they don't.


            a greener horse will try to figure out what you are supposed to be asking - the schoolmaster waits until YOU get it right.

            the first working pirouette at the cantor i ever did was to warm up a wonderful older prix st. george horse - when i had him correctly on the aids, my instructor had me spiral in - spiral in - spiral in --- until i started to gasp, then she firmly said SPIRAL IN!!! - then after two turns, she said, now, spiral out - spiral out - spiral out...

            the pirouette was a pure three beat cantor and it was so easy - because the horse was athletic and it felt good to him - as long as i held up my end of the bargain.  now i see horses crow-hopping their back legs in what is the most jolting, unpleasing thing ever that is SUPPOSED to be a pirouette at the cantor.  ugh!

            for me, this issue with the romneys is about ethics - about fraud... not so much about horses!

      •  Oh, eXtina, you're handy to have around :-) (7+ / 0-)

        That's pretty bad - rider or horse?  Expert vet says scores with comments reflect horse compensating, not moving freely.

        We all know that if we bought a horse that was nerved, and it wasn't revealed - we'd have the owners in court, too.

        As many of you know, I defended (while ducking the entire time!) Ann Romney against attacks that dressage horses were "elite".

        But this is beyond the pale.  I have read the expert opinion twice, and there is no way I can create, in my mind, any plausible scenario where the Romneys were unawares their sore horse was suddenly sold sound and upper level.

        If somebody can do that, please feel free.   Because as much as I hate Mitt Romney's politics, knowing someone defrauds on a horse deal - from vet, to trainer, to owner - makes my blood run very, very angry.

        And this happened a couple years ago - and even though the fourth injection of sedative/analgesic could not be explained (trainer gave most likely) the Romneys are still using this trainer!

        ARG!   I cannot get past this.  I simply cannot.  This is much worse than Shamus on the roof ....  This is business fraud, and ethical emptiness, and simply mean and money-grubbing to the horse and new owner.

        2012: the Year of the Voting Woman. And by the way, Republicans ... we're pretty pissed about what you've done to our country. Republican Party Motto: "Tax the poor, gift the rich"

        by mumtaznepal on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 03:00:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  No they aren't (0+ / 0-)

      I had already read it before making the comment and thought perhaps I had missed it. They're not even addressed let alone answered.

      "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

      by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:30:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the vet's affidavit (10+ / 0-)

        said that the bone spur was visible in the 2005 xrays,  that the pre-purchase  x rays showed the same bone spur and calcification, ie, ringbone,  when sold in 2008, original vet in prepurchase who had ongoing business relation with Ebeling, Romney, referred to ringbone as a minor superficial blemish, the medical records of the horse show multiple cortizone injections to the joint, not the other front foot or other joints.  The horse didn't show between 2005 and 2008 while owned by Romney and Ebeling.  The vet from New Bolton (New Bolton not BFE) opined that the horse couldn't have had a bone spur/calcification to that degree (worst he had seen in 38 years) without showing lameness issues.

        As for waiting,  purchaser may not have noticed immediate symptoms, may have thought the horse needed to settle in to a new owner/rider/training,  looked to themselves first, and then finally get a vet who tells them, this is a problem,  then question if it is new, try to get information, find an expert willing to testify and a lawyer,  that can take months of preparation before a lawsuit is filed.

        If there was nothing wrong,  why didn't Ann, Ebeling or some other person related to the farm, an assistant trainer, etc, never show the horse?

        •  thank you! i trust new bolton any day over (0+ / 0-)

          a barefoot farrier (sorry, eXtina).

          •  yes, I would certainly 'trust' someone who had (0+ / 0-)

            seen xrays over someone who hadn't, too.

            "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

            by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 01:20:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  thank you - i was not meaning to criticise you (0+ / 0-)

              as much as the experience and the reading of the data presented.

              i have great confidence in new bolton - they are an amazing institution!

              btw, how did you go from barefoot farrier to judging or vice versa?

              my boys (now boy) have been barefoot their entire lives. i've had farriers tell me if i tried to get them to put a nail in their feet, i'd have to find another farrier to do so because they would not.  over 1/2 inch white line, solid feet that wore perfectly to the correct angle.  love barefootin'

              if the horse's feet can take it, i recommend everyone at least TRY to take the shoes off (unless they have a physical issue that requires shoeing - think thoroughbred feet).

          •  Oh, and ridicule my work all you like (0+ / 0-)

            but the 'gods' like Dr. Soule give up on and discard horses with problems like Super HIt's all the time - I'm the one that gets them as a last ditch effort, and more often than not brings them back to a useful life. SH is lucky in that Norris seems able to pay for his upkeep (she probably got paid off by Romney) and if I was anywhere near that area I would look her up and offer to have a look. I've rehabbed what is probably far worse.

            "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

            by eXtina on Sat Jun 23, 2012 at 02:55:28 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Which prepurchase vet, Romney's original one or (0+ / 0-)

          NOrris's? If Norris used the Romney's vet then that is incredibly foolish of her.

          If she used her own vet and the rinbone was that bad then either she had a really bad vet, ignored her vet, or knowingly took a risk.

          If the ringbone didn't change between 2005 and 2008 then there was no misrepresentation.

          Maybe it 'took a while' for symptoms to show up, or maybe it didn't. Maybe maybe maybe. That's why this isn't so cut and dried.

          We have a lot better chances of hitting Romney for outsourcing jobs to INdia because a) he did do that, provably b) that's what matters to Americans and what he claims to be an expert on, rather than obscure esoterica of the horse industry which he is tangentially invoved with.

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 01:19:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Ebeling did show the horse, at PSG (0+ / 0-)

          In 2008, he scored in the 60's . romney only owned the horse from 04 to 06
          Norriss dropped down to Third Level, and scored in the 50s

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 01:21:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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