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View Diary: BREAKING: Britain stops Russian ship carrying attack helicopters for Syria (187 comments)

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  •  Yeah (0+ / 0-)

    I thought Hussein was the guy working with Al Qaeda.

    Here's Godwin II:  If someone rolls out the Al Qaeda boogey man to prop up their fave guy, you know their bullshitting you.

    Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

    by Mindful Nature on Mon Jun 18, 2012 at 10:07:01 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Prop up (3+ / 0-)

      what fave guy?

      That's ridiculous to accuse people who oppose intervention, and who are trying to point out some of the complexity of what is happening here of being supporters of Assad.  It's just ridiculous and either malicious or stupid.

      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 04:24:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  However it is not absurd (2+ / 0-)

        to question the judgement of those who do not see what the problem is with sending attack helicopters to a regime that has massacred its citizens.

        Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

        by Mindful Nature on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 07:07:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Those attack helicopters were part of previous (0+ / 0-)

          deal to refurbish them from several years ago. The ship has now turned turned back. BTW, Assad has hundreds he could use.

          massacred its citizens
          There's been "massacres" from both sides.

          When insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan fought from their villages, deaths of civilians from US bombs and rockets were called "collateral damage" and the fighters were accused of being "terrorists hiding behind women and children".

          When rebels in Libya or Syria are on the attack, they are called "freedom" fighters. When they retreat, they become "civilians".

          This is as old as warfare itself. It's called demonizing the enemy.

      •  he's not just 'opposing intervention' (0+ / 0-)

        he's suggesting a U.S./Al Qaeda puppeteering of the Syrian uprising.  That's pretty insulting to the thousands of Syrian civilians involved in their own uprising.

      •  moreover, everything he posts on the (0+ / 0-)

        Arab Spring shows little or no knowledge about what's actually going on there.  That's why he always gets ignored or yelled at by the dkosers who DO closely study the area.

        •  Specifically, do you think the Frankfurter (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Claudius Bombarnac

          Allegemeine Zeitung reporting on Houla is CT?  Do you think the fact that Al Qaeda is in Syria from Iraq is CT (even tho Clinton admitted it)?  Do you think the story from the Channel 4 UK reporter about being setup to be killed by the FSA is CT?  
          Or other things.

          "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

          by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 11:28:21 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  few doubt that Al Qaeda (whatever that even (0+ / 0-)

            means) has played some part in the Arab Spring uprisings, much like any other group with interests in mind.  Usually pretty small, but they're present.  And revolutions/uprisings are brutal and hardly monolithic.  That German report is certainly not confirmed--and even if it does get confirmed--well--horrible things happen in revolutions by all sides.  Things like the rape of Nanjing, Abu Ghraib, My Lai.  I think it's very likely that the vast majority of violence to date has been perpetrated by those who are capable and  have the resources for it...I's not like Assad's father didn't wipe out 10,000 in Hama in a single day.

            And Bashir is turning out to be similar.

            Are all the revolutionaries peace-loving citizens?  Hell no.  That's no tthe way these things work.

            •  Not to mention the hundreds of thousands (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              that got wiped out in Iraq based on a pack of lies by the Cheney/Bush cabal.

              I think that Assad has lost control of the Shabiya. Even the militias are not under cohesive control by any one agency. Things have escalated to the point where it is sect against sect, village against village, town against town.

              •  well if you're going to cite can also (0+ / 0-)

                cite the thousands wiped out under the Clinton-era  no-fly-zone and sanctions.  None of these things are pretty, and none are ever strictly humanitarian.

                Ultimately, though--the general point that I and several others of us here have been trying to make is that, while revolutions can (and often do) get co-opted by less-then-above-board parties, the revolutions themselves were generally peaceful popular uprisings--at least for a period.  Although I agree with you that things have spiraled rapidly downwards and that I very much doubt that Assad is giving the go-ahead to every militia action going on--he bears an enormous amount (the vast majority) of responsibility for what has transpired under his watch.

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