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View Diary: About that 'pro-life' terrorism in Georgia (122 comments)

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  •  More likely (31+ / 0-)

    they are trying to access patient records.

    "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

    by newfie on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 11:37:07 AM PDT

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    •  exactly (24+ / 0-)

      harrassing doctors isn't enough,  they have to 'out' and try to punish the patients as well.   Bet there are some suprised faces on the thieves if they succeed in getting patient records on all these evil doers. Friends, family, fellow parishioners.   The hypocrisy can run deep with these folks.

    •  I was hoping (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharoney, splashy, newfie

      someone would bring that up.  Harassing patients and threatening to tell husbands or parents they were at an abortion clinic is an important anti-choice tactic.  It appears a new campaign is brewing.

      As of right now, I loathe all anti-choice politicians with an intensity greater than the radiation output of a thousand suns. 3.13.12

      by GenuineRisk on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 08:05:44 PM PDT

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      •  And, even more important (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        white blitz

        harassing future potential patients.  Laying the groundwork to put fear and doubt into future patients' minds.  If you can set up the expectation that there is a good chance of discovery then you might prevent those people from ever becoming patients.

        "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

        by newfie on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 05:11:16 AM PDT

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        •  eons ago, when one of Margaret Sanger's (0+ / 0-)

          clinics was raided by the cops, many patient files were stolen.  Catholic women who'd patronized the clinic reported receiving anonymous phone calls. The callers threatened to tell their husbands if the women kept golng to that clinic.

          As of right now, I loathe all anti-choice politicians with an intensity greater than the radiation output of a thousand suns. 3.13.12

          by GenuineRisk on Sat Jun 23, 2012 at 08:11:51 PM PDT

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    •  Yes, they want to expand to the girls and women (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      newfie, white blitz

      To stalk and punish them too.

      It's about terrorizing a group of people, to get them afraid to assert their rights.

      Basically, they want the white girls and women to be forced to give birth, to keep the "white race" going, since they are so afraid of being outnumbered. I'm sure they don't care about the girls and women of color.

      Women create the entire labor force.

      by splashy on Wed Jun 20, 2012 at 11:59:58 PM PDT

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      •  I don't think race (0+ / 0-)

        plays any factor in this.  I think it is purely about their belief that the fetus is a fully formed human being.  Face it, most people would absolutely be opposed to killing new born babies.  We'd all be appalled.  Many would call for the severest punishment of those who did that.  

        I think that most of us would be opposed to abortion after the point when the fetus becomes viable out of the womb with the exception where the life of the mother or baby is threatened.  For these folks, that point is at conception.  They cannot/will not envision the fetus as anything but a fully formed human being.  Heck these are people who for the most part believe in creation and refuse to consider evolution.  They are supposed to understand human development?  Not that it is difficult but you won't understand what you don't want to understand.  So to me most people agree that to abort a child (meaning a fully viable being) is not right.  Fundamentally we disagree when that point is.  On one side faith/belief and the other science.  It is difficult to argue against belief.  The logic isn't structured to be changed.

        That sets aside the absolute dissonance between how these people feel about real humans.  War is fine, capital punishment is fine, poverty is the fault of the poor, suffering is the fault of the sufferer, etc.. this is where the racism will creep in.

        "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

        by newfie on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 05:29:24 AM PDT

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        •  you're playing their game (0+ / 0-)

          by getting into the whole conception/viable debate. The bottom line, for me, is - that it's none of anyone's business. Women get to make their own decisions about abortion, at ANY TIME during their pregnancy.

          Otherwise, they frame the debate, and women lose. Just as we have been losing for the last 20 years.

          I'm not just pro-choice. I'm pro-abortion. More women, especially teens, should have abortions. Childbirth is the fastest route to poverty for young women. I'm not speaking through my hat, either. I was a teen mother.

          “In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of.” ~ Confucius

          by susanthe on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 06:08:25 AM PDT

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          •  Then we disagree. (0+ / 0-)

            I am playing no one's game.  I think fewer people hold your opinion than not.  I think most folks would see a line when a child becomes viable for sustained life outside the womb.

            "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

            by newfie on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 08:53:08 AM PDT

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            •  From a pragmatic PoV, I agree with susanthe (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              newfie

              Any "reasonable" will be used (have been used) by anti-abortion politicians and people who enforce laws (police & DAs) to say: the doctor lied, the woman lied. More barriers = less and less access, with a goal of only theoretical access.

              I'm alright will trusting women and trusting doctors who trust women -- especially if the doctors aren't marginalized but are part of a system where oversight works better. I think medical standards works much better than abortion, see Canada.

              Giving birth (giving life) should be a gift not an obligation or women and poor people are 2nd class by definition

              by julifolo on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 10:28:40 AM PDT

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              •  I was thinking more along the medical (0+ / 0-)

                ethics line of reasoning rather than political oversight.

                "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

                by newfie on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 11:10:51 AM PDT

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                •  I would also rather leave it to the doctors (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  susanthe

                  It's not my business.

                  Unfortunately, your first reply in the thread seems like a "common ground" attempt. Two things happen with that:

                  1st, "viability" gets pushed back further so that 20 weeks is "obviously viable" even when it's only a fraction that survive. And pushed back further because "women and doctors lie", and so on.

                  2nd, approaching this as a common ground issue is treating pregnant women as public property, if society as a whole gets to decide (public pressure & the pressure of traditional expectations about what "real women" should be.)

                  I'm also hacked off at nature that childbirth was gengineered to be dangerous (by evolution: the survival advantage of larger head size). OK, Nature wasn't sexist that "on purpose". But since we're a society that theoretically has free will, I'd rather give pregnant women the benefit of the doubt and try to push that the right and fair thing is to let the woman decide, especially considering how unfair biology is.

                  Giving birth (giving life) should be a gift not an obligation or women and poor people are 2nd class by definition

                  by julifolo on Thu Jun 21, 2012 at 01:37:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

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