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View Diary: Remember the Soldier a Republican Audience Booed? He Endures Another Indignity in Ohio. (111 comments)

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  •  Luckily the drive to overturn the Ohio law (21+ / 0-)

    is going gangbusters. It's got more momentum than any of the ballot issues current out there. They are going for 2013 with Freedom to Marry Ohio, and they will make it. I would not be surprised if they have signatures for this year's July 4 deadline (you need 385,000 for a constitutional amendment), but they will definitely make it for next year. Meanwhile, Ohio "Personhood," which WAS going for this November, has a pathetic, paltry 20,000 right now (although they claim to still be counting signatures). so Ohio isn't all that bad.

    Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

    by anastasia p on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 09:45:07 AM PDT

    •  More power to them. (7+ / 0-)

      But I honestly don't see how they get a majority in 2012 or 2013 to vote for a marriage equality amendment in Ohio.

      I could see 2016 (if it is still necessary).

      PPP 5/10/12 875 Ohio voters.  Same-sex marriage legal>

        Legal: 35%
        Illegal: 52%

        Marriage: 31%
        Civil Unions: 34%
        No recognition: 32%

      http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...

      •  I have serious concerns about that movement (13+ / 0-)

        I'm already seeing at least one Ohio-based activist expressing anger and frustration at the national LGBT rights orgs like HRC and Freedom to Marry for not getting onboard with this ballot initiative.

        But, such a complaint seems to presume national "Gay, Inc." has unlimited time and money to nurture every single state initiative in all 50 states.

        And they don't, sorry. They just don't. They do have to pick and choose which battles they spend time and money on, or they'll never win any of them.

        There are other more pressing immediate needs (WA, ME, MN, MD) and other states on deck (CO, IL, HI, OR, RI, NJ) which are much closer to marriage equality victory than Ohio, based on polling.

        If Ohioans want marriage equality, I really think they need to work to build their own network on the ground in state, to move that polling before they come with their hat out to the national organizations and ask the national orgs spend time and money to help move the polls for them.

        It has to be a grassroots up, not hierarchy down movement.

        "When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it." ~ Oscar Wilde

        by Scott Wooledge on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:11:01 AM PDT

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        •  One could say that pushing the amendment (6+ / 0-)

          now even if is an impossible dream at the moment is a way to move the polling and generate a debate, etc, etc.

          I don't object per se to them trying something "out of reach", but yeah, asking for support elsewhere seems a stretch.

          •  I'd agree. (5+ / 0-)

            but they won't be participating in any activities in the ballot fight that they can't do WITHOUT a ballot fight.

            The activists actually in the state can ask to speak to Churches, Unions, NAACP and other minority chapters about what marriage equality means, WITHOUT a ballot fight imminent.

            They can reach out to media and try to get their stories published in paper and included in the local news.  They can ask allies, in faith and business and elsewhere, to submit op-eds to the local papers. They can press local big businesses to offer partner benefits (giving real benefits and NEW coverage).

            They can basically run an entire ballot campaign without going to the ballot.

            All the ballot fight does is attract the right wing to come and spend lots of money in the state whipping up homophobia (endangering teens to bullying and adults to hate crimes) and leads to another failure at the ballot box. (Which they can then say would have been averted if Gay Inc. had just helped.)

            "When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it." ~ Oscar Wilde

            by Scott Wooledge on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:25:53 AM PDT

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            •  All true (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              sockpuppet, billlaurelMD

              except that a ballot fight will generate a lot more media attention than anything else they might do.

              They can reach out to media and try to get their stories published in paper and included in the local news.
              I think if this is what they decided they want to do, they should go do it, not be criticized for it, but not expect lots of support.  After all, they could have figured that part out (little or no support) long ago.  To be upset about it now makes no sense and is not becoming.

              We don't, after all, know what will happen.  Maybe having the ballot initiative will shift opinion from 35% to 45% and make marriage equality ultimately come years earlier to Ohio that it otherwise would.

            •  recced for discussion (5+ / 0-)

              Maybe I check my brain at the door on this, but I doubt it's really feasible to "run an entire ballot campaign without going to the ballot."

              That said, I think the organizers have to be prepared to lose, and they ought to be prepared to run the campaign on their own and not to grouse at national organizations.

              I think we can count on having the right wing whip up homophobia in Ohio no matter what.

          •  They could press towns like (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jpmassar, wasatch, Cali Scribe, jayden

            Cincinnati, Columbus and others to pass local partner recognition or non-binding resolution in support of marriage equality, or repeal of the state or local DOMA.

            I'm just saying there are so many ways they can move the bar on the polling before they seek a vote before the people, which really doesn't look promising right now.

            To say nothing of the fact that Ohio still doesn't have an employment protection law for LGB or T. They could work on that.

            "When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it." ~ Oscar Wilde

            by Scott Wooledge on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 10:30:57 AM PDT

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            •  That's been happening for years (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jpmassar

              and this grew out of urging mayors to sign on to the national Freedom to Marry – and encountering little resistance. Proud to say my mayor was the first. Employment protection in the legislature is the true long game because, barring the passage of Voters First Ohio and redistricting for 2014, we cannot take the state senate out of radical right wing hands until 2022. A constitutional amendment is a more immediately achievable goal.

              Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

              by anastasia p on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:30:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  No one here cares what HRC does (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, lostboyjim

          Freedom to Marry Ohio was 100 % generated from the grassroots by a trio of activists in Columbus. Within a month, it was blazing like a wildfire. At first the "official"LGBT groups were grumpy and hemming and hawing, but several months they were holding their own meetings to figure out how not to get left at the station. The activists here don't give a shit what national groups think, and are not waiting to find out if Ohio is a higher priority than some other state. What you say sounds almost like the "defeatism" and calls of 'Just wait — it's not our time" that the grassroots activists got from more established groups here. But you are about six months behind what is happening in Ohio.

          Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

          by anastasia p on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:27:44 AM PDT

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        •  recced, because (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, jayden, Scott Wooledge

          this helps. I've often complained about the national orgs, and this explains a lot for me. thanks.

          Rape apologia among progressives (well, anybody) is so very disturbing.

          by terrypinder on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:32:30 AM PDT

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        •  And we're doing pretty well in the polls in MD (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar, jayden, billlaurelMD

          right now. Every time I see a reference to the majority who now support marriage equality in MD I cheer.
          But I'm not assuming that means we can beat the anti-gay amendment because we know that the issue polls better than it does in the actual voting.
          We're going to need to be out there.

          We're not perfect, but they're nuts! -- Barney Frank

          by Tamar on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:38:49 AM PDT

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      •  I do. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jpmassar, lostboyjim, Ahianne

        There's calculation to going for 2012. One is that they're educating while they're collecting. The other is the turnout model. In 2013, most of the important races will be mayors in big urban areas. It'll be on the antis to try to drive their people to the polls, absent anything else to vote for. Past results have shown that in Ohio, Democratic percentage soars in the November election following a presidential year. I think they will do it. The energy around this is stupifying me. It's not even my issue but somehow they dragooned me into collecting signatures for the first phase – for approval of the official signature collection campaign.

        Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

        by anastasia p on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 11:24:30 AM PDT

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        •  I hope you're right. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jpmassar

          Those polls look very scary. I'm of the mind we need to be polling at 60% support on election week to feel comfortable the floor won't drop out.

          I'm not even comfortable with the majority polling we're seeing in MD, ME, MN and WA yet. I want it north of 60% to believe we can make 50% + 1.

          "When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it." ~ Oscar Wilde

          by Scott Wooledge on Fri Jun 22, 2012 at 02:38:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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