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View Diary: Guardian: How Romney's Getting Away With His "Pervasive" & "Reckless" Lying (215 comments)

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  •  The minute you see the word (0+ / 0-)

    worse, it just entered the realm of value judgements. Worse than what becomes a vital question.

    if we could imagine the economy measured by a single number every month

    110 111 108 102 96 85 78

    there's the financial crisis

    then Obama became president and the economy does this

    79 81 83 83 84 87

    The economy is not worse than what it was before. But what if the president had done nothing and the economy did this

    81 85 93 94 99 103

    Well, in that case you can say that what the president did was make the economy worse than it otherwise would have been.

    And since that supposition can never be proven/disproven, you're left with opinion.

    •  Sorry, still bull puckey if you ask me. (9+ / 0-)

      There would be no facts if you could say every time, "well, we don't know what might have happened if something else happened, so we can't really say what happened."  Pretzel logic, tortuously twisted to make a point that doesn't wash.

      •  facts have to do (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        with what did happen in the past. Once you get to speculative alternative scenarios. we're in the realm of BS, not facts.

        Some more credible than others i grant you. Had Obama not passed the stimulus, then the Vulcans would have given us anti-matter tech. and solved our energy probems.

    •  sorry. you just changed the question. (6+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jayden, LeoQ, IdaMena2, Sychotic1, Matt Z, joanil

      if the original statement is "made the economy worse", then you can not then change the statement to "made the economy worse than it otherwise would have been".

      that leads to unclear thinking which is what you're displaying here in this thread. you're conflating fact and opinion, to the detriment of both. Rmoney did not voice an opinion based on any kind of fact, he voiced a false-fact, i.e. a lie.

      blink-- pale cold

      by zedaker on Sat Jun 23, 2012 at 01:35:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  there's a huge difference between (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sychotic1, Back In Blue, Matt Z, Amber6541

      "making the economy worse" and "making the economy worse than it would otherwise have been".

      The economy has improved. So it's impossible that Obama worsened the situation. Ergo, it's a lie.

      Changing the question is, BTW, another way of manipulating people ("hey I wasn't talking about that, I was talking about this!!").

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