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View Diary: This Is What Theocracy Looks Like: DOJ Sues Two Cities for Discrimination and Rights Violations (109 comments)

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  •  A scary vision of where right wing America wants (28+ / 0-)

    us to be...like the Christine O'Donnells of the world who ask where separation of State and Church is in the Constitution.

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 08:45:28 AM PDT

    •  Of course the answer is: The 1st Amendment... (15+ / 0-)

      you twit!

      But, apparently Scalia's great legal mind has also missed that.

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 09:10:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, no, no. Child molesting is not religious (7+ / 0-)

      Religion is just an excuse to molest. I would suggest that our focus should be on helping the children rather than taking an opportunity to exploit this tragedy to bash religion.

      There are plenty of other fundamentalists out there that do not rape children or practice incest. The women in the chuck wagon dresses holding down kids for rape are no different than some more modernly dressed women doing the same thing to break-in some kid to the sex trade.

      Last I looked, the 1st Amendment does not provide protection to pedophiles and their enablers.

      "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

      by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 11:29:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Religion has no problem bashing atheism or any (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sb

        other viewpoint it disagrees with. So, I don't shed many tear when people say:

        Don't bash religion.
        Personally, I think religion a socially acceptable form of mental illness. If people disagree with me fine. But, it doesn't mean I don't have the right to say it...and no I don't hate religious people. They're just in the grip of an destructive meme.

        Most religious people are sincere and try to do the right thing. But, they think they have to appeal to supernatural authority to do the right thing, rather than figuring things out for themselves. Unfortunately, I think supernatural belief systems can lead them to ideas that are at best self-delusional, and at worst, can be a threat to humanity.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 01:04:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The point is not the bashing, either of religion (3+ / 0-)

          or atheism IMNSHO. It is the illogic, ignorance, and anti-scientific thinking behind the bashing and broad-brushing.

          Good old-fashioned field science is so far unequivocal: (1) perception/non-perception of a creator/god/first cause/universal spirit has nothing to do with whether one does or does not accept the findings of science. (2) Most humans perceive or otherwise believe in the existence of a creator/ god/first cause/universal spirit, whether or not they actively respond to that perception or belief, and whether or not they perceive/believe the creator/god/first cause/universal spirit is responsive/ indifferent/ beneficent/ malevolent/ other; and a small % of humans feel no such perception or belief. (3) No scientific observations disprove the existence of a creator/god/first cause/universal spirit. (4) All but a tiny % of humans adhere to some form of moral code, regardless of god-perception/non-perception. (5) Some humans, regardless of god-perception/non-perception and regardless of the type or scale of endeavor, crave power over others and/or have no empathy and/or commit acts of abuse ranging from minor to horrific.

          •  In many places, non-belief or agnosticism is the (0+ / 0-)

            norm, not just something that a "tiny percentage" of humans believe in. In Europe, I'd say there are probably now more non-believers than believers. In China, even with some loosening on official controls of churches, the vast majority of people don't believe in the god/creator/spirt thing you refer to. Traditional Confucian society also did not profess belief in creator gods. That is actually a more Western idea about existence having a beginning and end. Many Buddhists also don't interpret their views as belief in a creator god. The most educated people in the most developed countries certainly seem to be bastions of unbelief. You are welcome to think whatever you want. But, it should not be justified with an illusion that the overwhelming portion of the rest of the world shares the same belief (as if that would matter anyway).

            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

            by tekno2600 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 at 12:53:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  This is a criminal matter, not a religious one (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cany, solozen, Cassandra Waites

          I know better than to waste my time in religious matters on this particular site. Y'all can go back-and-forth all you like without me. I care about the children, not scoring points in the ongoing DK religion battles.

          I stand by my comment. These people are criminals and their particular beliefs are irrelevant to whether or not they abuse children.

          "There is nothing more dreadful than the habit of doubt. Doubt separates people. It is a poison that disintegrates friendships and breaks up pleasant relations. It is a thorn that irritates and hurts; it is a sword that kills.".. Buddha

          by sebastianguy99 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 04:14:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think it's a constitutional matter (0+ / 0-)

            which I suppose can be construed as a criminal matter.  The portion of this story that enraged me the most was the obvious capture by the church of the law enforcement and public utilities services in the cities referenced.  The denial of protection and exclusion from public services - for which I'm sure even non-FLDS adherents are taxed - is outrageous.

            That's not to say that polygamy, child abuse, brainwashing, exploitation of women and slavery in all but name isn't disturbing, but these conditions exist, with the exception of polygamy, to one extent or another in the wider society.

            The distortion of law enforcement and public services provision to favor a particular religious group, however, is unique, and I sincerely hope the DOJ throws the book at these communities.

            "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

            by SueDe on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 10:49:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  We are bashing irreligion (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Leap Year

        Real religion is unrecognizable to these cultists.

        Busting the Dog Whistle code.

        by Mokurai on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 03:01:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  what needs to happen: RICO suit.... (10+ / 0-)

        .... alleging that FLDS is nothing more than a cover-story for a large pedophile ring.  Then come into those towns with enough federal agents and other outside LE so there are two guys in uniforms for every male member of FLDS, and do the complete clean-sweep: arrests, search warrants, the whole nine yards.

        It should be possible to prosecute, convict, and imprison every adult male member of FLDS who has ever had improper contact with a minor, and that should clean up most of it.  The families who are victims should be put in protective custody in comfortable surroundings until the legal proceedings are completed.  

        Further, the FLDS "church" itself, named as defendant and corporate veil pierced, should be asset-stripped, as well as the individual defendants.  

        That should take care of that, plus or minus the need for extensive social and psychiatric services for the survivors.

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 03:13:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hell to the yes. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, BYw, Cassandra Waites

          Great idea. Rec-ity-rec-rec.

          The problem with going with your gut as opposed to your head is that the former is so often full of shit. - Randy Chestnut

          by lotusmaglite on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 04:06:09 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          G2geek, cany, BYw, Cassandra Waites

          It's not like these guys went to great lengths to hide what they were doing. There are plenty of witnesses to the inappropriate contact and "marriages" with minors. In the Texas court case, it came out that a large percentage (sorry, can't remember the exact number) of the teenaged girls at the compound were either currently pregnant, or had given birth previously. Hello, DNA testing! Hello, statutory rape! Hello, jail cell! You wouldn't have to look far for the perpetrators.

          I'm kind of surprised that Jeffs and his followers came to West Texas in the first place - it sounds like the Twin Cities were pretty much abetting the FLDS in whatever it wanted to do.

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