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View Diary: It's Not The DLC and I Can Prove It (318 comments)

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  •  Negativism? (2.85)
    This is the one thing I don't get -- the constant cries that the DLC is a 'negativist' organization.

    The DLC has been way out in front putting out policy positions, informative and interesting studies of pressing issues... they're right up there with the CAP on this one.

    I'm mixed in how I feel about the Blue Dogs; on the one hand, they seem to have a firm set of principles they're in on, but on the other hand... those principles don't really line up with Democratic principles.

    But the DLC and the New Democrats are a progressive, important part of the Democratic team.  On that, there can be no doubt.

    Attacking other Democrats is healthy, sometimes -- Particularly for those of us who lean in the more "Tom Friedman-esque" direction and would like to stop feeling like second-class citizens among the party's base.  But that's not the main of what the DLC does.

    The DLC and DKos are, in essence, two essential links in the same chain.  I just wish that people would realize that until DKos and those affiliated take it to the next level in terms of mapping out a strong, sensible direction for the Democrats -- the DLC will be, and is, the leading link in that chain.

    And I separate the DLC as an organization from the campaigns their cabal has worked on; those campaigns have been disasters, but that's separate from the real good that the DLC does for the party.  I wish they'd work on elections less and get back to what they do well; formulating policy, formulating party direction, and, well, leading.

    But many may disagree.  I look forward to your comments.

    I bomb atomically / Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses can't define how I be droppin' these.

    by RealityBasedJoe on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 07:25:11 PM PDT

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    •  Or maybe its because... (4.00)
      Progressive have gotten a little tired of the DLC telling us to get out of their way.  Or warning us of the "threat" posed by Howard Dean's existence. Or the DLC telling progressives they are no longer viable candidates.  Or all of the above as in http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=900056&contentid=25169

      My complaint about the DLC is that they don't look for solutions they look for compromises.  Sure they have all sorts of proposals, but precious few look like actual leadership just pandering to the near right, with the expectation that the left will thank them for being grown-ups and saving us from having to take a stand.  When in reality they're just trying to avoid being called the dreaded L word.

      http://ccindems.blogspot.com/

      by MRM46947 on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:10:09 PM PDT

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      •  But RBJ wasn't saying that. (4.00)
        My views are probably closer to the dKos mainstream than to the DLC but I read their stuff regularly.  It's a better reality check than Republican sites which I find considerably more doctrinaire.  It distresses me to see the DLC constantly flamed.  Yes, when From acts like moderates are the only legitimate faction in the party it is grating.  And I find it no less so when progressives do the same thing.

        Cut RBJ some slack.  I want a tent big enough for him to fit under.  

        The GOP: Making America safe for heterosexuals, one cartoon character at a time.

        by Pho on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 08:41:51 PM PDT

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      •  See, that's the thing. (2.50)
        I disagree in part because it grates me too, when the DLC proposes policies that seem more like 'compromise' than 'leadership'.  The problem is, I see that not as pandering to the right, but as pandering to the extremist fringes of the Dems; they get attacked so much that they've been cowed into defensiveness and submission by the dominant, more-to-the-left faction of our own party.

        I admit, the "We're the adults in the room" shtick from the DLC is not good.  But you know what?  Comparatively, sometimes they are.  When Louise Slaughter posts a diary here using the incindiary language of the GOP "Raping" ethics rules, or in general all the hyperbole that gets tossed around on this board...

        ...See, that's the thing.  I really, really, really, really have a chip on my shoulder about hyperbole.  Because it's the one thing that serves no useful purpose that we do just because to our base, it "feels good", and it's the single biggest thing keeping swing voters from taking us seriously.

        I want swing voters to come on our side voting FOR what we believe in.  Not just voting AGAINST the Republicans because they can't stomach the corruption and the pandering to fundamentalists.

        Last election, out of Bush's support, way more of his support was genuine.  Way more of our support was the "I'd vote for a Ham Sandwich over George Bush" crowd.  The people we're already going to get anyways.  There's room for growth in that crowd, sure, but what's more important is to grow the ranks of relatively nonaligned voters who will feel good about voting for a Democrat, not like they're picking the lesser of two evils.

        And you know what?  The biggest, most fundamental thing we can do in that regard is to drop the Hyperbole Wing of the Democratic party, or at least give them a firm spanking.  Bush is a genuinely bad president.  He's not Hitler.  I'm frankly not so sure he's the worst president in history -- we've had a hell of a lot of presidents.  I don't think he's done anything impeachable.  I don't think he's engaged in some corrupt scheme to sell out the country for Oil/Likudniks/The Bildeberger Group/The Illuminati/World Imperialism.  I do, however, take very serious issue with quite a few of his policies.

        I think in that sentiment, I'm in the majority -- Both of the Democratic party, and of Americans.

        And nothing turns me off more, makes me more sympathetic to people I really shouldn't be sympathetic to, than seeing some protester with wannabe hippy-kids who couldn't bother to dress cleanly knowing they'd be on TV waving a "No Blood For Oil, ChimpyMcHitler and Amerikkka" sign.

        I'm not the only one.  And I'm not an old fuddy-duddy.  I'm 19 years old.  It's my generation that tends the same way.  I'm from one of the least extremist, most wired-in, most centrist generations on record.  And I don't like to be alienated by a faction of my own side that gets all the press time and spends 80% of it making us look like we can't be trusted.

        The DLC, for all their faults, for all the things that just make me want to smack my head against the wall and say "How could you possibly think that would work?!"...

        ...For all of that, sometimes they're the ones portraying themselves as the grownups in the room.  And that may not be all that counts, but when it comes to building a party that works, that's where you start.

        Thanks for your time.  I appreciate your thoughts.

        I bomb atomically / Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses can't define how I be droppin' these.

        by RealityBasedJoe on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 09:40:05 PM PDT

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        •  Hyperbole (4.00)
          I agree about the words we toss around being "in-artful," but clearly hyperbole isn't something that bothers the public.  If it did Ann Coulter wouldn't have a job.

          But the DLC is just as guilty, their 2 year long and running hatch job on Dean has been nothing short of a smear campaign.  They managed to derail a very popular movement. And then again in January, the DLC didn't offer any leadership, they just wanted to pander a little to the republicans in their district, knowing full well that Dean would be the chair.  

          So there is acting like an adult and being an adult.  Howard Dean is an adult, From acts like an adult.  Just because a few progressives or liberals use incendiary words doesn't disqualify the whole left wing of the party.  To do so ignores some very serious thinkers, Sen Kennedy, George McGovern, and Paul Wellstone come to mind.

          I'll take a leader over a poser any day.  There is plenty of room in this party for leadership form both wings, but we need real leadership, not pandering and grandstanding.  

          http://ccindems.blogspot.com/

          by MRM46947 on Fri Apr 29, 2005 at 07:14:10 AM PDT

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    •  As stated by Chris... (none)
      From and Reed deserve all the bashing that can be handed out to them The DLC needs new leadership if they are to maintain an important role in the Democratic Party. From and Reed abdicated any claim to repect.

      As Chris shows the House members claiming DLC membership deserve no such bashing. If they are reflective of the overall DLC point of view then they need to insist that From and Reed move along and allow leadership similarly reflective of these views take their place.

      From and Reed are bad news for Democrats. They are not healthy for us. They need to get with the program or get the heck out of the way.

      "We have the power. Sorry if you don't like the fact that we've decided to use it." Posted by Jeremey*in*MS at February 3, 2005 01:59 PM

      by Andrew C White on Thu Apr 28, 2005 at 10:09:31 PM PDT

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    •  Are votes best indicator of DLC loyalty? (4.00)
      Personally, I think votes are minor in comparison to TV soundbites. Most people in mainstream America don't know who voted how... And even if one did know, you can't get into the brains of those voting to know which aspects of overly-complex legislation the person was voting for or against.

      I don't think you have proven anything. Anything at all other than a final vote tally analysis.

      The real damage done by DLC Democrats to the progressive causes most of us support (i.e., non-Republican-light causes and values) is done via TV and by non-legilator members of the DLC -- like that asshole Al From -- who targeted Dean early on, smeared him, and helped take him out.

      Votes/ Schmotes.

      You've proven nothing. I assert the DLC as a body is still a corrosive element which is undermining the foundational integrity of the Democratic Party. And I can prove it! (but I won't)

    •  Are votes best indicator of DLC loyalty? (none)
      Personally, I think votes are minor in comparison to TV soundbites. Most people in mainstream America don't know who voted how... And even if one did know, you can't get into the brains of those voting to know which aspects of overly-complex legislation the person was voting for or against.

      I don't think you have proven anything. Anything at all other than a final vote tally analysis.

      The real damage done by DLC Democrats to the progressive causes most of us support (i.e., non-Republican-light causes and values) is done via TV and by non-legilator members of the DLC -- like that asshole Al From -- who targeted Dean early on, smeared him, and helped take him out.

      Votes/ Schmotes.

      You've proven nothing. I assert the DLC as a body is still a corrosive element which is undermining the foundational integrity of the Democratic Party. And I can prove it! (but I won't)

    •  You are a troll. (none)
      I have been patient with you, hoping that we could learn from you and you from us despite your different views. However, I see one round of ad homenim attacks after another.

      1. You were Personal Responsibility, a person who was banned some time ago. But instead of accepting your ban, you went around the ban by picking a new name. Just like a kid who is sent to the principal, but who doesn't go.

      2. You equated people opposing the parental notification act to Maoists.

      3. As you know, most of us here are on the left wing of the party. Instead of talking to us, you talk down to us by siggesting we are not important enough for you.

      4. You say you are a Democrat, but I find that hard to believe. Every single time you post, you are always advocating some right-wing position.

      5. You fail to answer the arguments people have raised against your positions.

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