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View Diary: Obamacare unpopular, unless it's not called Obamacare (116 comments)

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  •  What it really shows though (23+ / 0-)

    is how bad our side is at selling our agenda and how good the other guys are at selling theirs.

    People like our side... they just don't know it's our side.

    "Do what you can with what you have where you are." - Teddy Roosevelt

    by Andrew C White on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 02:13:34 PM PDT

    •  But it also means that people (18+ / 0-)

      form opinions only on what they have been told/lied to about/heard from RW talking points and not based on any facts they find out themselves. An ill-informed public is very scary - as we are witnessing right now.

      This is a nightmare.

      Working on a dream to come true.

      by redstella on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 02:29:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It shows how completely disconnected from (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      quince, wsexson, Brown Thrasher, TimmyB

      reality the supporters of this bill still are, and how far they'll reach to find reason to believe they're somehow superior in their capacity for reason.

      People hate the mandate more than they like subsidies and an end to rescission.

      That doesn't mean they're ignorant, or that you and yours need better propaganda.

      It means they understand their own financial situation much better than you do.

      Thinking the "food stamp challenge" teaches you about being poor is like thinking a camping trip will give you insight into being homeless.

      by JesseCW on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 04:26:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's political malpractice not to appoint a p.r. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      New Rule, tb mare, MPociask, Fury

      spokesperson to explain the ACA. Instead, just let the Repigs bash it in hopes that during the 2012 election cyle you can at the last minute salvage people's perceptions of it, and don't figure that the Supremes, looking at the polls, can now just destroy the entire thing.

      24/7, it's all 'Great news for Romney!'

      by doinaheckuvanutjob on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 08:00:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  1000 IGNORED radio stations, that's all. this is (0+ / 0-)

      a common take on it- the admin is doing a lousy job selling it. bullshit. their problem is that even if the president mentions talk radio in the state of the union , as he did, the left continues to ignore it. he needs to go all out on it but then even the left will call him an out of touch whiner.

      what PR pros and what giant microphones are louder than the billionaire's think tanks feeding a thousand coordinated radio stations reaching 50 mil a week?

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:17:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not sure what you're saying. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        KingTag, Brown Thrasher, celdd

        What about talk radio is the left ignoring? We all know talk radio is a cesspool that has been poisoning the minds of the country for decades, and we have been begging for somebody to do something about it, since nobody out here has enough money to buy enough stations or legislators to change the regulations.

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 09:25:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  buying stations is not the solution (0+ / 0-)

          There is NO organized opposition to it. It has to be challenged. It's getting a free speech free ride. Waiting for 'market'  or legislative solutions is not going to work.

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 09:53:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Challenged by what, exactly? (0+ / 0-)

            If legislative solutions don't work, what else is there? Protests? How many people do you think would take to the streets so that they can have their radio stations change ownership?

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 02:17:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  here are a few suggestions (0+ / 0-)
              i can think of several things never tried (0+ / 0-)
              1) treat stations as the GOP headquarters they actually are- protest radio stations, and treat the talkers as the leaders of the GOP. mention the main names regularly- limbaugh especially, and give them credit for the shit the GOP is doing- they play a main part selling it, and they don't have any credibility when directly challenged.

              2) pressure universities off RW radio. as in my sig, many universities have associations with RW radio. if a few pull out others will have to follow. they shouldn't be able to claim they have to keep mocking their own high and lofty mission statements just so they can reach a few more listeners, or because they've always used a particular station (which was likely why they were bought for RW radio). there are probably hundreds of RW radio stations that depend on those associations for community cred and local ad money. RW radio could be devastated, IMO. as many as 1/3 to 1/2 of the main stations get university endoorsements this way- while they do their best in those states to defund education to privatize it, attack teachers and professors, etc.

              3) and transcribe the main local and national shows and make the transcripts available in a searchable database. there are copyright concerns so the transcripts can be scrambled and searched for frequency. The actual context is apparent for RW radio anyway. if the terms "death panels", "obamacare", "fast and furious" "weapons of mass destruction" "acorn" "van jones" etc could could have been searched for frequency by date, and noticed before they were 'catapulted' into the mainstream it would say a lot. making media aware of how this shit starts, and  that the buzz made up and not genuine, would go a long way toward ending the think tank's ability to dominate messaging in the US. there is a service - tveyes.com - that makes transcripts on some shows available, but only to companies/orgs. it would also indicate the coordination involved.

              most of the left has no clue how important and dominant RW radio has been the last 20 years getting us into this mess so they ignore it, trivialize it, while it kicks their ass and makes their efforts much less effective and they end up reacting after the  alternate reality has already been established.

              there will be no significant reforms or legislative fixes as long as the left ignores RW radio- and that's a catch 22 for those who want to beat an entrenched monopoly with 'market' solutions, or legislation that has to get past a bunch of rabid idiots screaming about 'free speech'- the corporate version.

              any significant effort to challenge RW radio will pay off big for the left.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 03:17:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  1 and 2 are protests. See my above. (0+ / 0-)

                3 has nothing directly to do with challenging anything.
                And why would any station owners change anything based on protests that don't actually threaten their income? I thought you were going to go for boycotts, at least, which affect pocketbooks, but can easily be countered since supporters of RW radio have far more $ than any group of concerned citizens is likely to have.
                I disagree wholeheartedly that "the left has no clue how important and dominant RW radio has been." You might want some data to back that assertion up, because there have been voluminous surveys, studies, and books published that show the phenomena over the decades. Anybody who doesn't already know that is being willfully ignorant.
                If you aren't "challenging" owners' income one way or another, you aren't doing jack, and to do that you need more than what you're alluding to here, I'm afraid. College radio? A sideshow at best.

                "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                by bryduck on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 03:57:29 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  any attn via protests or universities finding alts (0+ / 0-)

                  for sports broadcasting will create boycotts and in the case of the unis an exodus of local advertisers. it's possible as many as half of all major RW stations have some sports endorsement.

                  I disagree wholeheartedly that "the left has no clue how important and dominant RW radio has been." You might want some data to back that assertion up, because there have been voluminous surveys, studies, and books published that show the phenomena over the decades. Anybody who doesn't already know that is being willfully ignorant.
                  there have been very few protests at RW radio stations.

                  most of the people i've talked too have no clue what radio's been doing in this country the last 20 years and the lack of any organized opposition to it verifies that the left generally ignores it. they analyze their losses and lick their wounds and blame their reps while allowing the giant megaphone to take pot shots at them all day, with nary a peep of complaint. they  blame money, they blame fox, they blame everything but those 1000 coordinated megaphones. which is really stupid because it makes everything progressive groups and politicians harder- wastes volunteer time and dollars on a broad scale. the constant analysis of politics and media with no factoring of RW radio, except as an afterthought, is more evidence. radio seldom is factored into polls that would be much more valuable with such factoring. something like "do you listen to talk radio" would go a long way to explaining the source of much of the misinformation and many opinions. the constant blaming of fox news, talk radio's puny sister, for a lot of radio's successes is more evidence. because they can't read it and it hurts their heads to listen to it it has been routinely ignored the last 20 years, while it has been used to short circuit our normal democratic feedback mechanisms, destroy the GOP by making thinking moderates a thing of the past, and beat  the left like it's an invisible political 2x4.

                  This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

                  by certainot on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 04:36:17 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I think you may need to (0+ / 0-)

                    get our more--and I really don't mean that in a snide way--if most of the people you talk to have no clue about radio's pernicious influence. (Unless, that is, you are referring only to Republicans. They are notoriously ignorant, and I can see what you are saying if that is the case.) Historians and journalists have been analyzing the media and its increasingly unhinged biases for a long, long time, and I would say that nearly 100% of us on dKos know all about it. Yes, that doesn't mean that all Dems, or even a majority of Dems, know it, but we probably represent a good sized batch of the most active members of the party.
                    Eric Alterman's What Liberal Media? came out in 2003, and it was merely the most well-done study; others pointed to his conclusions throughout the 90s as well. Robert Emtman, in Democracy without Citizens, covered something of this in 1990, and even the purely media-focused (iow, not addressing politics per se) Three Blind Mice, by Ken Auletta (1991), recognized that consolidation was perverting news reporting by the broadcast networks as they began treating the news as a profit center instead of a public service.
                    On one of your smaller notes, I think we--at least I--use "FNC" as synecdoche for "right-wing media"; any time I say "FNC", I am including rightwing radio in whatever condemnation I am throwing around.
                    I think you are confusing ignorance and learned helplessness; it's not that we don't know enough to attempt protests against radio stations, it's that it has been nearly impossible to rally enough support against them to do any good. It took Rush Limbaugh's disgraceful treatment of Sandra Fluke to get any traction from advertisers despite all the clamor we raised, and I bet sooner rather than later, as long as his ratings stay solid, almost all of those advertisers will flock back. Protesting radio doesn't work because ratings trump all in that realm as it fights being killed off completely by the internet. Raising consciousness is great, but we can't get to the consciousnesses of those who listen to Limbaugh and his cronies and keep their ratings up, because they refuse to listen to our side at all. We have to go at it from the other angles where we have at least some sway.

                    "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                    by bryduck on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 10:48:46 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  the recognition is just not there- the result is (0+ / 0-)

                      the same as if it ignored because there is still no organized reaction to it- the lack of a written record and the constant blaming of RW radio damage on fox and the RW media in general greatly undervalues its dominating part in one disaster for the left after another.

                      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

                      by certainot on Thu Jun 28, 2012 at 06:05:25 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  And the Iraq War was sold, to public cheers (4+ / 0-)

      for years, before it became a deadly PR albatross.

      Go figure.

      "..The political class cannot solve the problems it created. " - Jay Rosen

      by New Rule on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 09:23:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If you had 1000 radio stations (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZedMont, Fury, celdd

      and god literally knows how many churches, plus all the other media money can and does buy, you'd be a marketing genius too.

    •  So once again (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      foucaultspendulum

      framing is everything.

    •  What it really shows (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fuzzyguy, celdd

      is there is no librul media.

      Romney - making sure the American dream stays a dream.

      by jackandjill on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 09:44:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Also means that American people are stupid (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      celdd

      The fact that they are so easily swayed to go against their best interest by paid ads and GOP bullshit is truly amazing.

      •  All those "stupid" people (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Brown Thrasher, TimmyB

        Single Payer.  Affordable guaranteed healthcare.  

        THAT is what those "stupid" people wanted.  

        Do not fault the American people when they see that this is not what they wanted.

        Somebody said Party! I got excited. I love Parties! Especially Parties with exclamation marks! Now I'm sad because there's not a Party! h/t AnnetteK ;-)

        by EdMass on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 10:37:21 AM PDT

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        •  Stupid people will believe Single Payer=Communism (0+ / 0-)

          Don't kid yourself. While many voters agree that Single Payer is the way to go, a boatload of ads funded by Rove and the insurance industry will make sure that the stupid beats the wise!

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