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View Diary: Sun's Effect on Ocean/Wind Circulation (36 comments)

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  •  The sun is the driver of the winds and ocean... (11+ / 0-)

    currents. I doubt if they would argue about that. Whether there is a connection between the variability of solar activity and climate variability is not addressed by this animation. I wouldn't want anyone upset.

    Thanks for the comment.


    Universe started with a Big Bang. It's big, getting bigger, and mostly dark.

    by jim in IA on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 08:34:29 AM PDT

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    •  Yes, it seems the title of the video (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pollwatcher, jim in IA, palantir, Aunt Pat

      is a bit misleading (no doubt unintentionally.)  At first I read it as saying solar storms have some important impact on climate and ocean currents, but it seems all that was meant is that both topics get covered by the video.

      “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

      by jrooth on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 09:23:56 AM PDT

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      •  I agree. That video could have a better title. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pollwatcher, jrooth, palantir, Aunt Pat


        Universe started with a Big Bang. It's big, getting bigger, and mostly dark.

        by jim in IA on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 12:27:02 PM PDT

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      •  solar radiance varies from about (8+ / 0-)

        1360 to 1362 W m-2.  See http://lasp.colorado.edu/... which shows the solar radiance since 2003.  See that there are lots more wiggles in the beginning and the end of the time series?  That's the result of sunspot activity, which basically went to nothing from 2008-2010.  One thing I find interesting in the time series is that if you smooth out those wrinkles, there's maybe a 0.5 or so W m-2 decrease from the solar minimum.  0.5/1360 is about 0.04%, and then you have to account for only 1/2 the earth's disk getting hit by sunlight, and much of that at an angle.  Forcing from all greenhouse gas emissions is about a factor of 5 to 10 more than that.

        "Mitt Romney has more positions than the Kama Sutra." -- me "Social justice is love, made public." -- Cornel West

        by billlaurelMD on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 01:03:15 PM PDT

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        •  The sun is surprisingly steady in total output. (8+ / 0-)

          Our human impact is pretty clear, at least to those with open minds about science.

          Thanks for that great link and your comments.


          Universe started with a Big Bang. It's big, getting bigger, and mostly dark.

          by jim in IA on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 02:00:12 PM PDT

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        •  Ah, the TSI strawman. (0+ / 0-)

          What is the variance in <300nm?  What effect does that have on upper atmosphere chemistry?  How does the solar magnetic field vary and what is the effect of that variance on the earth's electromagnetic environment?  Is there anything interesting about GCR flux variability and potential effects on cloud formation?  Did the Maunder minimum have something to do with the Little Ice Age?

          Never mind,it's all settled.

          Where are we, now that we need us most?

          by Frank Knarf on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 07:30:56 PM PDT

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          •  okay, give me links to what it is .... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jim in IA, jfromga

            you're referring to.  Is it about a particular wavelength of solar insolation that changes the environment?  300 nm is ultraviolet, and constitutes about % of the solar spectrum?

            Is what you are referring to from peer-reviewed research?  And do you have a particular axe to grind, perchance?

            Out of curiosity, I decided to do a bit of Googling on this topic.  I note that there has been knowledge of the stronger variations in solar insolation in the 200-300 nm range since about 1990 or so, perhaps further back.  In 1995, Lean et al. found that 0.51°C of the increase in temperature from the Maunder Minimum (late 1600s) to today is accounted for by solar insolation increases, and they state that's essentially in agreement with the climate model response. One-half of warming from 1860 to 1970 can be accounted for by solar insolation. But only 1/3 of the increase since 1970 to 1990 can account for the warming during that time.

            There's one other problem with UV light.  A pretty large proportion of it is absorbed in the stratosphere by ozone.  Impacts nearer the surface are related more to the visible and near-infrared part of the solar spectrum.

            "Mitt Romney has more positions than the Kama Sutra." -- me "Social justice is love, made public." -- Cornel West

            by billlaurelMD on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 09:06:46 AM PDT

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            •  I didn't put in the % (0+ / 0-)

              but it's not all that much.  Looks like from Google links that it ranges from 2-3% of total solar irradiance.

              "Mitt Romney has more positions than the Kama Sutra." -- me "Social justice is love, made public." -- Cornel West

              by billlaurelMD on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 09:41:05 AM PDT

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