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View Diary: Thoughts after a conversation with a lost liberal ally (38 comments)

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  •  The benchmark for liberal political success (6+ / 0-)

    in the mind of many is FDR.

    And he was elected in the midst of the Great Depression.

    It's not hard to understand why someone thinks that the next FDR will require extreme hardships to create.

    Such utilitiarian thinking to my mind is offensive--whether its done by Marxists (many of whom, a century ago, opposed liberal democracy on the grounds that it would undermine the case for true socialism) or by modern liberals guided by little more than disappointment in the progressives who do manage to get elected.

    •  These people who think that way would not (4+ / 0-)

      have voted for Roosevelt in 1936 either. After all, things weren't just hunky-dory after FDR's first term.

      I don't know if we just are so used to instant gratification now or what the problem is. Or if they just forgot that the entire banking system was about to go belly-up at the end of 2008.

      The thing is that by electing Obama, the worst did not happen. But some people do not give him credit because he stopped the worst from happening. Yes, the stimulus should have been larger, but if McCain had been elected, there would have been no stimulus. Yes, we would have all liked a public option, but with McCain, there would be no reform at all. Etc.

      And spare me the list of things that Obama did or did not do that you don't like. I'm 66 and no President has ever done everything to my satisfaction - or to anyone's. And none ever will. But the choice is which direction do you want to go.

      Sometimes I think that I'd just like for the wingnuts to get their way so they will have to live with the results. But in reality, the shit will fall on the just and the unjust so I don't really want that to happen. Hopefully this woman is just venting and when it is time to vote, she will realize that who the President is makes a difference in the lives of real people. It is never going to be perfect. Nothing in life is. But there is a difference in what life would be like under Obama and under Romney.

      You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

      by sewaneepat on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 05:26:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  FDR was a success in the minds of people because (0+ / 0-)

      he was a fighter. If his ideas were shot down by the courts he would denounce them and try another idea. He was not seen as a compromiser has was seen as one sided and hell bent. And he was not afraid to collect enemies along the way. He was hated and is hated to this day. But he was seen as someone who tried to get things done. And yes he had problems in his party too. But he fought them and was not afraid to dictate orders to Democrats in Congress and punish them too.

      Oh BTW you do not know what utilitarianism is. Go look up John Stuart Mill. Utilitarianism is the idea that something is good dependent on how many people benefit from it. The more people that benefit the better.

      Marxists did not like liberal democracy because liberal democracy tends to protect property rights. To achieve true socialism, from their point of view you must eliminate private property. That requires a dictatorship. When private property is gone then the dictatorship will fade away as will the further need of government.  Not my point of view but still.

    •  FDR was to the right of Congress (0+ / 0-)

      He actually had to restrain them from go to socialist.

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