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View Diary: "We're doomed." (192 comments)

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  •  The claim that ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... no matter how things get organized "there will be ownership" is itself quite facile. Ownership as we understand it is a much broader set of social institutions than it is in many societies over history, so the claim that "there will still be ownership" ignores that in some societies in history a majority of current ownership rights did not exist as individual rights at all.

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    by BruceMcF on Thu Jun 28, 2012 at 10:11:38 AM PDT

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    •  yet they were owners (0+ / 0-)

      owned people even. If you're going to extrapolate potential societies after the 'Fall' then getting wrapped up in modern rights will blind you to the possibilities. Maybe even probabilities. The caveman scenario that some here are postulating is no less unlikely than us maintaining the individual rights regimen we do now.

      Try to shout at the right buildings for a few months.

      by nickrud on Thu Jun 28, 2012 at 01:52:17 PM PDT

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      •  Not all did ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... do not stereotype the property institutions in some societies at some point in time to the range of property institutions across all societies at that point in time.

        Even in feudal times, the rights of usas, fructus and abuses were not often tied up into a single "property owner", with the right to use, the right to exclude, and the right to abuse quite often dispersed ~ the commons could have no fructus or abuses other than the sovereign, and no restriction on usas, a feudal land grant could have multiple fructus as the sovereign granted domain to a lord as vassal who granted domain to their own vassal who granted usas to their retainers. Sovereign, lord, knight could all exercise fructus, peasant exercise usas, and only sovereign had the right of abuses.

        Quite often, the only real property where "property" existed as we expect it to be were the sovereign's private domains.

        Other feudal systems in Japan and East Africa were similar.

        On the other hand, before the feudalization of Gaelic lands, there was often the system of property of a clan, in which there was little private property at all except for portable personal possessions. Many horse migratory societies, whether in the steppes of Asia or the Great Plains of North America after the re-introduction of the horse, were similar.

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        by BruceMcF on Fri Jun 29, 2012 at 09:08:19 AM PDT

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