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View Diary: Rape victim denied birth control on religious grounds (211 comments)

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  •  Dispensing drugs is not a right, it is a licensed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil, white blitz

    and regulated privilege.

    To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

    by UntimelyRippd on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 04:03:35 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  True. But the license criteria (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      cannot be based on religious beliefs.  And it cannot be directed toward making sure someone doesn't follow religious beliefs.  

      There are limits to what governments can consider in awarding professional licenses.  Essentially, the purpose of licensing is to protect the public against people who are incompetent -- don't have the requisite knowledge and skills --  to be in the profession.  The license requirements have to be directed toward that goal.  You can't use the licensing requirements to make sure that a fully competent and knowledgeable licensee does not decline to provide services that violate his/her religious beliefs.  

      I don't think, for example, that a state could decide that an OB-Gyn doctor who wants to rget his/her medical license must agree to perform abortions if a patient requests it, over the OB-Gyn doctor's religious objections to performing an abortion. I seriously doubt a state could say, if you want to be a licensed OB-Gyn, you have to perform abortions if asked.  It's the same kind of principle, on a lesser scale.  

      •  They aren't (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ginny in CO, Tonedevil

        it's not like requiring you to eat pork or be hindu or something.  No, those requirements are clearly and squarely related to the functions of pharmacies.  

        And, I think that the Ob/gyn regulations also would be permissible.

        Courtesy Kos. Trying to call on the better angels of our nature.

        by Mindful Nature on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 06:35:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ginny in CO, Tonedevil

        Who says there's a limit?


        You're busy espousing an abstract principle, but what you are in fact talking about is a pragmatic matter of public policy. Should a Christian Scientist be licensed to "practice" medicine, if he refuses to -- you know -- practice medicine? Should a Jehovah's witness be licensed to practice surgery, & then allowed to leave a patient dying on the table for lack of a blood transfusion? Your "principle" is on the face of it absurd. Because the government explicitly limits who can perform a service, the government is obviously not just permitted, but obligated to demand that said person perform said service.

        You've waffled all over the place on the matter of, "oh, well, sure, if it's the only pharmacy available," but as soon as you've waffled on the particulars, you've waffled on the general principle. What, after all, constitutes "available"? Doesn't that depend on the circumstances, not only of immediate geography, but of both the time of day, the patient's immediate health, the patient's immediate other needs, the patient's access to transportation, and so on and so on? The situation cannot be reasonably defined, and indeed, the moment you define it you completely demolish the "principled stand" of the pharmacist in question: "Sure, you can have your principles, as long as they aren't inconvenient to society in general."

        The whole idea is nonsense, and in fact, it's worse than that: It's fucking evil, because it's all about catering to the bullshit authoritarian jackassery of the worst fucking people in America. Fuck them, and their fucking anti-human fucking principles.

        If the fucking Catholic Church is unwilling to practice medicine in their fucking hospitals, then they shouldn't be fucking allowed to run fucking hospitals, anymore than you would allow the Jehovah's Witnesses to run a fucking trauma center, or the Scientologists to run a fucking psychiatric clinic, etc., etc., et fucking cetera.

        Jesus fucking hussein motherfucking christ on a crispy fucking cracker, how can any thinking person be remotely fucking obtuse about this?

        To put the torture behind us is, inevitably, to put it in front of us.

        by UntimelyRippd on Wed Jun 27, 2012 at 06:42:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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