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View Diary: Using Right-Wing Talking Points to Achieve Left-Wing Goals (151 comments)

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  •  Bingo, thank you for this comment!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    You have just shown us who you really are.

    WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For May: Martyrs of the San Diego Free Speech Fight, Spring 1912.

    by JayRaye on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 04:15:00 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Yep. A pragmatist. A realist. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TheOpinionGuy

      Not someone who says "I refuse to talk to them in their language" and then wonders why we lost the election, the popular vote, the legislative vote, the important judicial nomination...

      Science can tell you how to clone a dinosaur. Humanities explains why this is a bad idea.

      by Killer of Sacred Cows on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 04:31:29 PM PDT

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      •  Some one who will adopt right wing hate speech (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        in the name of pragmatism is not a friend of the working class.

        I say: hater is as hater does.

        Progressives do not need to use hate speech to sell their ideas.

        When I left my job full of right wingers, several of them approached me to tell me how much they respected me. What won them over was that I spoke the truth to them in my own words.

        I never mimicked their anti-poor rhetoric. I always preached Solidarity.

        Hate speech does not win elections for progressives. Obama never used hate speech to win in 2008. We took the House and the Senate in 2008 and never used hate speech.

        Dress it up any way you choose, teaching part of the working class to hate their fellow workers is neither pragmatic, nor realistic. That is not how the unions were built and not how the middle-left alliance was built in the 1930s. That same alliance brot us the New Deal.

        In every case, an alliance was built based on Solidarity, not thru shaming or name calling.

        WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For May: Martyrs of the San Diego Free Speech Fight, Spring 1912.

        by JayRaye on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:04:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Talking to people who only speak right wing hate (0+ / 0-)

          and pointing their hate at the people who deserve it will at least get them focused on the real problems, won't it?

          People who make 100K a year are NOT working class. People who make 80K a year aren't, either.

          And I think reaching the working class with the meme "the people who are freeloading are the ones who CAN afford to pay but REFUSE TO" will make them angry at the right people, who are NOT working class.

          Science can tell you how to clone a dinosaur. Humanities explains why this is a bad idea.

          by Killer of Sacred Cows on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:12:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am able to convince my working class friends and (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP

            family members to drop their opposition to the ACA without using any hate speech towards anyone of any income.

            Your idea of working class depends on income, mine depends on relationship to the means of production.

            Some of my fellow union members made $100K per year (not me!). They are working class. They need union protection just like we do (safety, hours, wages, time off, protection from wage theft.) We do not want lower paid workers to turn against higher paid workers or vice versa.
            We strive for Solidarity.

            We can sell the ACA and never use any hate jargon: freeloader, slacker.

            The real freeloader is Big Insurance.

            WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For May: Martyrs of the San Diego Free Speech Fight, Spring 1912.

            by JayRaye on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:22:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Then you are dealing with a different group (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TheOpinionGuy

              than I am.

              I know nobody who makes the kind of money you're talking about who is working class. Anyone making over $80K is firmly in the middle to upper middle class here (a shrinking demographic, true). Most of the people I know who buy into the right-wing meme are the ones who logically and by evidence should be the right wing's most unlikely supporters: the poor, the low-income retiree, and the low-income working class and working poor.

              The only way to reach that group of people is to get them riled up against the ones who really are to blame, and most of them aren't at the point yet where they can conceive that big business might be that enemy. Once they've identified "the freeloaders" as the ones who can afford services, but opt not to pay for them and let the bill fall on our shoulders, and once they get USED to that notion, THEN tell them "And you want to know who's an even worse freeloader? The companies that sell the insurance policies. The companies that took our tax money and never gave us a dime back. The CEOs who get million-dollar bonuses and screw over working-class people like you and me."

              But with this group, you have to start small and redirect their hate away from the worse off towards the better off, who actually deserve it. That also builds solidarity, by the way, by drawing a firm boundary line between those who care about their welfare and those who could not give a damn.

              Science can tell you how to clone a dinosaur. Humanities explains why this is a bad idea.

              by Killer of Sacred Cows on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:28:46 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The boundaries you should be focusing on are (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                TomP

                between the poor, the working class (& my idea of working class is broader than yours), and middle class on the one hand,

                and the ruling class on the other.

                Dividing the poor from the working class and the working class from the middle class will not serve us well.

                In only serves the ruling class.

                Rather than trying to "redirect thier hate" you might want to try and teach Solidarity.

                Whey do you want to deal in hate?

                What a sad way to live.

                WE NEVER FORGET Our Labor Martyrs: a project to honor the men, women and children who lost their lives in Freedom's Cause. For May: Martyrs of the San Diego Free Speech Fight, Spring 1912.

                by JayRaye on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:47:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why do you want to fail at communication? (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  i saw an old tree today, Matt Z

                  THIS IS THE LANGUAGE THEY SPEAK. They do not speak the language of love for their neighbor, especially when that neighbor is not their color, their orientation, their religion, or their political party. They do NOT speak our language.

                  If you want to reach them, you must speak THEIR language, which is the language of anger, hate and fear. There's no getting around it.

                  Science can tell you how to clone a dinosaur. Humanities explains why this is a bad idea.

                  by Killer of Sacred Cows on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 05:55:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  "And you want to know who's an even worse...." (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Killer of Sacred Cows

                Precisely! Baby steps....

                Keep going KoSC! You are fighting the right fight, absolutely!

        •  No one is using "hate language" (2+ / 0-)

          Evoking a frame of "free loaders" is NOT hate language. Just stop that talk right now.

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