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View Diary: The stupid tax debate versus talking about the benefits of Obamacare (149 comments)

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  •  People who can't afford insurance... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TofG, mmacdDE

    ...don't have to pay the tax.  Those who can afford to pay insurance and opt not to are taking a gamble -- and if that gamble doesn't work out, they are leaving the rest of us to foot the bill.  That seems like freeloading to me.

    The reality is that I expect those who are able to pay into the system to be willing to do so.  In return, we should expect the government to chip in and support those who can't.  

    The ACA recognizes both sides of this formula, with a tax for those can afford insurance but choose not to get it, and subsidies (or Medicaid) for those who can't afford it.

    Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

    by TexasTom on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 10:41:21 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Bullshit (3+ / 0-)

      That is total bullshit. There are LOTS of people that are going to be above the penalty threshhold who are still barely making ends meet. I know SCORES of them.

      If it seems like freeloading you might want to check your party registration. Oh wait, I forgot, we're all 90s republicans now.

      •  you'll have to be humiliated first to qualify (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Angry White Democrat, quince

        the government will want to be absolutely certain that you're poor enough to qualify for a subsidy. It's not going to be an easy process.

        And if you want good coverage will you get subsidies that get you a "good" policy or will you have to take the cheapest?

        If you're self-employed will it be harder to get a subsidy, since you might not have a weekly paycheck?

        Would the President have been elected if he had said, in 2008, "we have too many uninsured in this country. The solution is to make them pay up"?

        •  60% actuarial value (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          quince, Shahryar

          The insurance people will be forced to pay for will have a 60% actuarial value. That translates to a $5000 deductible or so, i.e., worthless junk.

          •  It will be embarrassing for some people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Shahryar

            to look back at what they were saying this year after the exchanges and tax penalties roll out in 2014 and they find out who is actually falling through the cracks and who is actually being penalized, IMO. Though some will only dig in even deeper, sadly.

          •  Kaiser disagrees with you (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TexasTom

            Whose talking point is that?

            Kaiser Family Foundation Health Reform Subsidy Calculator

            Projected income in 2014 $40,000 171% of poverty

            Unsubsidized health insurance premium in 2014 adjusted for age $12,130 (Based on an age factor relative to a 40 year-old of: 1.00)

            Maximum % of income the person/family has to pay for the premium if eligible for a subsidy 4.95%

            Actual person/family required premium payment $1,982 (which equals 4.95% of income and covers 16% of the overall premium)

            Government tax credit $10,148 (which covers 84% of the overall premium)

            Out-of-Pocket Costs    
            The maximum out-of-pocket costs the person/family will be responsible for in 2014 (not including the premium) is $4,167.

            That includes all deductibles and co-pays.

            Hands off my ObamaCare[TM]

            by Mokurai on Mon Jul 02, 2012 at 01:20:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree. The goverment has no better mechanisms (0+ / 0-)

          in place then they do now for determining who will receive the subsidy or not. You do know it's very easy to falsify documents of any kind?

    •  There will also be some people who refuse to (0+ / 0-)

      take the subsidies, even if they can't afford it.    Some people would starve before taking any help like that.

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