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View Diary: UPDATED: A Conversation With My Conservative Father: What We Can Learn (185 comments)

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  •  obviously you don't know legislation is made (0+ / 0-)

    it was a veto proof vote.  he had to sign the bill.

    -You want to change the system, run for office.

    by Deep Texan on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 07:19:34 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  How is this relevant to getting agreement from (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fumie, Noodles

      a political opponent in a conversation where we hope to persuade them?

      Everyone knows Clinton signed that bill.

      Everyone knows it fucked up our banking industry and cost this country trillions of dollars, and was therefore wrong.

      The nuance doesn't matter here. We aren't in this conversation to "debunk facts," we're in it to persuade.

      "You're right, dad, Democrats had a hand in the mess, too, since it was Clinton who signed G-L-B."

      It's a simple fact and it's true. Acknowledging it lets the other guy acknowledge his party's part without losing face.

      Stop the party of Gut & Spend policies that gut our Earned Benefits programs like Social Security and Medicare and spends on tax breaks for the wealthy elite.

      by jillwklausen on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 08:14:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  as president he had no choice but signing the bill (0+ / 0-)

        it was a veto proof vote.

        at least get your facts straight.  Clinton had to sign the republican phil gramm bill because it had received a veto proof vote.  

        the first vote on this legislation was along party lines.  Only 1 Dem voted for it.  It passed.  This was in the senate and republicans controlled them both.  Knowing this history and telling it accurately is all i ask.  feel free to add more but at least get this part right.

        -You want to change the system, run for office.

        by Deep Texan on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 09:14:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  IT DOESN'T MATTER. I KNOW THIS FACT. (0+ / 0-)

          IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

          I am EXTREMELY well-versed in G-L-B and the entire history that led up to it from the early 1970s.

          IT. DOESN'T. MATTER.

          http://www.pbs.org/...

          "... the Clinton administration generally supported Glass-Steagall "modernization" ..."
          "On Oct. 21, with the House-Senate conference committee deadlocked after marathon negotiations, the main sticking point is partisan bickering over the bill's effect on the Community Reinvestment Act, which sets rules for lending to poor communities. Sandy Weill calls President Clinton in the evening to try to break the deadlock after Senator Phil Gramm, chairman of the Banking Committee, warned Citigroup lobbyist Roger Levy that Weill has to get White House moving on the bill or he would shut down the House-Senate conference. Serious negotiations resume, and a deal is announced at 2:45 a.m. on Oct. 22. Whether Weill made any difference in precipitating a deal is unclear.

          On Oct. 22, Weill and John Reed issue a statement congratulating Congress and President Clinton, including 19 administration officials and lawmakers by name. The House and Senate approve a final version of the bill on Nov. 4, and Clinton signs it into law later that month. "

          So stop pretending Clinton had no part in this. He did. And it is entirely IRRELEVANT to what degree when the goal is to find agreement of ANY SORT so we can ADVANCE past that to get agreement on the ACTUAL POINT we're trying to make.

          Stop the party of Gut & Spend policies that gut our Earned Benefits programs like Social Security and Medicare and spends on tax breaks for the wealthy elite.

          by jillwklausen on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 10:04:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  regardless of their tepid support (0+ / 0-)

            or what they got in exchange for specific changes to the legislation.

            it was a republican bill, passed by republicans.  Clinton had no part in this.  what you are reading is after the bill had already passed the senate.  you don't understand how legislation is made.  it was already on it's way to becoming law and republicans were turning Dems day by day.  you don't know the history here.

            bill was written by phil gramm (lobbyists), john mccain's 2008 campaign financial adviser before he quit.  bill was passed in the senate along party lines.  it was going to become law.  clinton threatend to veto if changes weren't made.  republicans were openly going around d.c. flipping Dems day by day.  Clinton had no choice but to deal.  

            this is how legislation and our government works.  it's why legislation is just about always a shit sandwich. clinton isn't to blame for this legislation.  did they not think it be a big problem, they sure did but they didn't push this bill.  Dems tried to block it but republicans ruled both houses of congress.  in short your blame of clinton is misplaced. the law was on it's way to becoming law without the Dems.  sure the Dems folded, to get some changes made but they were not the sponsors or the writers of it.  

            -You want to change the system, run for office.

            by Deep Texan on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 12:49:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm sick of you claiming I don't know how (0+ / 0-)

              Congress works. I'm sick of you claiming some superior knowledge about the intricacies of GLB, none of which you happen to have over me. I know damn good and well how the system works and why, as well as how politics works and why.

              What YOU have been ignoring is that this isn't a discussion about the finer details of GLB but HOW TO GAIN ACCEPTANCE OF THE POLICIES WE'RE WORKING FOR TODAY.

              I have asked you repeatedly why the bloody hell it matters whether it was a "Republican bill" or not, when simply acknowledging to a CONSERVATIVE listener that BILL CLINTON SIGNED THE BILL and you have behaved EXACTLY like a damn REPUBLICAN, dodging that very direct question to attempt to make yourself feel superior.

              If I can figure out a way to block you, I will. Otherwise, consider yourself ignored from now on.

              Stop the party of Gut & Spend policies that gut our Earned Benefits programs like Social Security and Medicare and spends on tax breaks for the wealthy elite.

              by jillwklausen on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 02:57:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  facts matter to me that's why (0+ / 0-)

                this specific legislation was created and passed by Republicans.

                stop blaming Clinton. just because he was president at the time.  any president would have signed the bill because that's how it works.  veto proof vote means no ability to veto.

                -You want to change the system, run for office.

                by Deep Texan on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 06:37:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Signing statement? (0+ / 0-)

          He didn't have to meekly sign the bill and then tell everyone how great it was.  Get your facts straight, fanboy.

          "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

          by Subterranean on Fri Jul 06, 2012 at 03:52:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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