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View Diary: #Libya at the crossroads: The ballot or the bullet (20 comments)

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  •  You are comparing Gadaffi's Libya to N. Korea? (0+ / 0-)

    Gadaffi's Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa.

    1.. There is no electricity bill in Libya; electricity is free for all its citizens.

    2. There is no interest on loans, banks in Libya are state-owned and loans given to all its citizens at 0% interest by law.

    3. Home considered a human right in Libya

    4. All newlyweds in Libya receive $60,000 Dinar (US$50,000) by the government to buy their first apartment so to help start up the family.

    5. Education and medical treatments are free in Libya. Before Gaddafi only 25% of Libyans are literate. Today the figure is 83%.

    6. Should Libyans want to take up farming career, they would receive farming land, a farming house, equipments, seeds and livestock to kick-start their farms all for free.

    7. If Libyans cannot find the education or medical facilities they need in Libya, the government funds them to go abroad for it not only free but they get US$2,300/mth accommodation and car allowance.

    8. In Libyan, if a Libyan buys a car, the government subsidized 50% of the price.

    9. The price of petrol in Libya is $0.14 per liter.

    10. Libya has no external debt and its reserves amount to $150 billion. Central bank has 140 tons of gold.

    11. If a Libyan is unable to get employment after graduation the state would pay the average salary of the profession as if he or she is employed until employment is found.

    12. A portion of Libyan oil sale is, credited directly to the bank accounts of all Libyan citizens.

    13. A mother who gave birth to a child receive US$5,000

    14. 40 loaves of bread in Libya costs $ 0.15

    15. 25% of Libyans have a university degree

    16. Gaddafi carried out the worlds largest irrigation project, known as the Great Man-Made River project, to make water readily available throughout the desert country.

    17. If a Libyan is laid off he must be given full pay for a minimum of 6 months according to labor laws.

    18. There are over 10,000 Libyans studying abroad with ALL expenses paid. This includes tuition, books, rent, food, and pocket money. If the student is studying for a doctorate, he can bring his spouse and children. Their costs are also covered.

    Watch what is now happening to the new oil PSA's. They are being renegotiated downward by 20 to 30%. There are also plans to reduce all subsidies like has been done in Iraq.

    The worse thing that can happen to Libya is to get a neo-liberal government like the US.

    PS, I'm Canadian.

    •  Taking time out from supporting Assad (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cynical Copper, Lawrence

      To promote Qaddafi illusions. The facts of Libya's past are somewhat different from the way you describe. From my recent diary on Libya:

      Mary Lynn Cramer in Counter Currents gives us a good example of the rosy picture pro-Qaddafi leftists painted of Libya before the revolution:
      Before the USNATO and “rebels” began their murderous and destructive attacks on the Libyans and their government, people In Libya had the highest gross domestic product (GDP) at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita of all of Africa. The government took care to ensure that everyone in the country shared in the wealth. Libya had the highest Human Development Index of any country on the continent. In Libya, a lower percentage of people lived below the poverty line than in the Netherlands....Libya ranked 61st, with a lower incarceration rate than Czech republic. It had the lowest infant mortality rate of all of Africa. Libya had the highest life expectancy of all of Africa, less than 5% of the population was undernourished, In response to the rising food prices around the world, the government of Libya abolished all taxes on food.
      "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
                                                           --  Mark Twain

      Contrast that with this view of Qaddafi's Libya published on the eve of the February 17th uprising in afrol News:

      afrol News, 16 February - While the Libyan economy drowns in petrodollars and its "Great leader" Muammar al-Ghaddafi buys support abroad, almost half of its youth are unemployed. The non-oil sector is tiny.

      Libya is the richest North African country. Counted in GDP per capita, Libya indeed is on an Eastern European level.

      But that does not reflect the real economy of the average Libyan, with around half the population falling outside the oil-driven economy. The unemployment rate is at a surprising 30 percent, with youth unemployment estimated at between 40 and 50 percent. This is the highest in North Africa.

      Also other development indicators reveal that little of the petrodollars have been invested in the welfare of Libya's 6.5 million inhabitants. Education levels are lower than in neighbouring Tunisia, which has little oil, and a surprising 20 percent of Libyans remain illiterate.

      Also, decent housing is unavailable to most of the disadvantaged half of the population. A generally high price level in Libya puts even more strains on these households.

      But the key of popular discontent is the lack of work opportunities, which strongly contrasts the Libyan image of a rich nation constantly propagated by the regime and its Soviet-style media.

      One Libyan, responding to those like Cynthia McKinney, who were repeating Qaddafi's lies and telling the world how wonderful Qaddafi's Libya was, had this to say:
      Have you been to Tripoli and seen the districts of Hadba Shergeeya, AbuSleem, Hay Alislami, Soug al Jomaa to name only a handful? Is it acceptable that in 2001, in a country with vast oil riches, and after 42 years of trying, that this country still has raw sewage pouring onto streets where children play, that some parts of the capital do not have phone lines or water pipeline? Is this credible leadership?

      5- You mention that in Libya there are ‘excellent institutions of learning’. This is nothing short of laughable. Did you know that some libraries in the main uni have no books? Did you know that in other libraries where they have sections for books, you are forbidden to enter these sections? Did you know that corruption in academic institutions is rife, where most lecturers take bribes to allow students to progress, largely because their wages are pathetic, and sometimes delay in receiving these wages sees them without pay for months. Did you know when the ‘brother leaders’ daughter was studying Law in the main uni they banned all males from the law school for the duration of her uni years? So if you were her age, male and wanted to go to law school at tripoli’s main uni….you couldn’t. Tough luck. The ‘brother leader’ says you cant, so you cant.

      6- Please tell me I misread your statement that Libya has good ‘medical facilities’? Are you not aware that most Libyans who require specialist care travel to foreign countries to receive this care? some countries FAR poorer than ours, i.e. Tunisia. Such is the market for ‘medical-tourism’ to Tunis that there are Libyan-only medical centres. Perhaps you don't know that you cant even get simple things such as the Flu jab in Libya. Its in such low quantities that it runs out within weeks. Perhaps you don't know that when one of my friends passed away with a heart attack the hospital where he was taken (well known) took 15 minutes to find an ECG that worked, and later kept replacing the defibrillator, because they were malfunctioning. Is this not a farce?

      7- You talk of our sense of belonging to Africa. Do you not know how much money Qaddafi pumps into Africa? Have you not heard of the war with Chad where countless Libyans and Chadians needlessly died? Do you not know of Qaddafi funding of rebel movements around Africa contributing to more bloodshed?

      You need to seriously revise your knowledge of the country if you want to be a credible activist for peace, or a worthwhile defender of Qaddafi. You are doing him more harm than good by demonstrating your lack of grass roots knowledge.

      This is just a sampling. There is a lot more information available for a fact-based analysis that show that even on the highly touted economic front, Qaddafi's Libya wasn't all it was cracked up to be by those under the spell of the illusions he so skillfully created for them.

      Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

      by Clay Claiborne on Sat Jul 07, 2012 at 03:56:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Have a look at Libya's HDI from an ubiased source (0+ / 0-)

        It's better than the other Arab states.

        BTW, how much of the oil found in the US belongs to the people? How much of this oil funds health care and education? Libya was one of the very few countries in the world that is not in debt. There was almost 180 billion in Libya's sovereign fund. This only compares to Norway and Sweden.

        Watch Libya get raped and pillaged by the neo-liberal jackals and vultures that are descending on the country. Within several years, Libya will be just like America - fucked up.

        •  It was paradise before, right? Yea with raw (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cynical Copper

          sewage and Qaddafi death squads running in the streets.

          Remember history, Clay Claiborne, Director Vietnam: American Holocaust - narrated by Martin Sheen

          by Clay Claiborne on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 08:41:46 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No "death squads running in the streets" (0+ / 0-)

            Conditions in Libya were better than most African countries. Libya had been under crippling sanctions by the US but things were rapidly improving once the oil money started flowing.

            You need to stop "demonizing the enemy" and start searching for truth instead of war mongering.

            Do you really think that Obama  and Clinton would have shaken Qaddafi's hand if all the crap you allege was actually going on at that time?

            The US has killed 100,00's of innocent people and displaced millions from their homes in the last decade alone. It has a far, far worse reputation than Libya.

            It's time America and people like you rethink your solutions to world crises. You are no better than John McCain.


            Report of the Working Group on the Universal Periodic Review*
            Libyan Arab Jamahiriya

            53. On the initiative to distribute wealth to low-income families, those programmes were related to distributing money through investments for every needy family. Over the past four years, 229,595 families had benefited from the programme.

            54. Regarding services for persons with special needs, the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya indicated that such persons received monthly allowances and were exempt from all fees and taxes, including for electricity, water and transportation. They also had residences and housing units, medical supplies, vehicles especially designed for them, and paid domestic help and home services.

            55. The delegation reaffirmed that the judiciary system in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya was independent.

            56. Concerning human rights training for personnel and law enforcement officials, a formal programme had been organized by the State. Personnel were trained through official curricula in all law schools, colleges and universities, including the armed forces college. In addition, all associations and human rights organizations conducted workshops and training courses and disseminated information and raised awareness regarding human rights issues. Workshops and technical capacity had been provided to two courts, which were being modernized.

            57. Regarding discrimination against women, the policy of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya was based on equality and non-discrimination.

            Here's what Libya is like today. There is no rule of law and thousands are illegally held in prisons. Torture is rampant.
            Libya: Militia stranglehold corrosive for rule of law

            In Libya: rule of law or rule of militias? the organization says that nearly a year after Tripoli fell to the revolutionary fighters ( thuwwar ), ongoing violations – including arbitrary arrests and detention, torture including to death, impunity for unlawful killings and forcible displacement – are casting a shadow over the country’s first national elections since the fall of al-Gaddafi’s regime.

            During a visit to Libya in May and June, Amnesty International found that hundreds of armed militias continue to act above the law, many refusing to disarm or join the national army or police force. The Ministry of Interior told the organization that it has been able to dismantle four militias in Tripoli, a tiny proportion of the total number.

        •  No, it will probably be more like Chad (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Claudius Bombarnac, protectspice

          The "election" is there to create some illusion of choice (and to give a show to gullible westerners). Libyans get to pick which rebel factions they want to preside over the coming rise in income inequality and decline in standard of living.

      •  I, for one, am happy that Qaddafi went (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac

        I just wish it had happened sooner and that the west was not for him before they were against him. What I am against was the foreign intervention and the lies that were told to justify that intervention and the subsequent imposition of western neo-liberal policies that disadvantage the Libyans economically. I find it unfortunate that you and others here are far too happy to use Bushian logic of the 'if you're not with us you're against us' kind.

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