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View Diary: Do Republicans read Salt Lake Tribune? (88 comments)

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  •  RE Russia (17+ / 0-)

    about two months rain in two hours.  photos

    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

    by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 04:49:03 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Like Nashville 2 yrs ago. (12+ / 0-)

      it would be a great thing if there were a web-page solely devoted to listed extreme weather events. It's too easy to forget.

      An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

      by mightymouse on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 05:01:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That could be a really important idea. (8+ / 0-)

        With pics and vids, statements from researchers, stories from victims...

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 05:18:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Calling Weatherdude...Hello? Hello? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jeff Y
          •  Hmmmm ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            subtropolis, Jeff Y

            Weatherdude has made a strong point that he does not embrace linking extreme weather events with climate change.  See here for an alternative perspective.

            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

            by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:03:16 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Thank you. Makes sense. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Jeff Y

              Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

              by Smoh on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:32:16 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Tornadoes. (4+ / 0-)

              Linking big tornadoes to climate change.

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              If you say "gullible" real slow, it sounds like "green beans."

              by weatherdude on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 04:12:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Is it just tornados? (0+ / 0-)

                When has the DC area ever had, in recorded history, a severe weather event like the recent Derecho?

                What did you write?  What I saw were phrases / paragraphs like the following?

                Derechos are a common type of severe weather during the summer, and they occur most frequently during intense heat waves like the one most of the central and east is experiencing this weekend.

                ....

                Derechos are a common, but very dangerous, type of summertime severe weather event. It's nature's way of balancing out the massive amount of energy built up in the atmosphere when a heat wave occurs.

                Certainly could have missed it, but I don't think that I saw you make an effort to place the Derecho within the context of Global Warming.  To discuss how Global Warming is now creating / fostering a context within which to see all weather events.  

                Without commenting on / using the term "Global Warming", you wrote of the Derecho:

                "Heat waves like this are breeding grounds for derechos."
                And, why are we having heat waves like this?

                And, is humanity doing something that will make those heat waves more likely into the future?

                No, I don't see it just with tornadoes.

                Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 04:54:27 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  And ... (0+ / 0-)

                  As I wrote in the piece that so frustrated you

                  There are many factors that influence weather events. Among them: climate disruption. We are now, however, in a situation where failure to discuss whether and how climate change / global warming / climate disruption could be a contributing factor would be, well, gross negligence.

                  Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                  by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 04:58:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Nope. I've been pretty consistent that this heat (7+ / 0-)

                  wave was so intense because of climate change, and that while derechos are a common summertime occurrence, the intensity of this heat wave made the derecho stronger than it would have been under "normal" conditions.

                  As FishOutofWater said the night it happened:

                  Global warming didn't make the derecho (21+ / 0-)
                  The record high temperature in DC for the month of June made the derecho stronger.

                  Summer thunderstorm damage is becoming more and more expensive as storms on steroids have stronger winds and larger hail.

                  It's like Barry Bonds compared to his father Bobby Bonds.

                  Barry hit many more home runs.

                  Storms on steroids do more damage.

                  look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

                  by FishOutofWater on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 12:17:08 PM EDT

                  [ Parent | Reply to this ]

                  And in the comment thread, I noted that the intensity of this heat wave was the reason the derecho was so intense.

                  I take issue with people linking every tornado outbreak as of late to climate change. That's all. I'm not the denier you seem to think I am, and I'm baffled and frankly pissed off that you are falsely portraying me in that manner.

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                  If you say "gullible" real slow, it sounds like "green beans."

                  by weatherdude on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 05:04:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I do not (0+ / 0-)

                    and have never portrayed you as a "denier".

                    I find that you seem to hesitate to engage with the role of climate change as part of it.  As per your note, this is a FOOW comment.  And, yes, "in the comment thread" you noted that it was heat wave (which, by the way, i directly quoted in the note above your words on this).  But, did you take the five words to connect the heat wave to the context of climate change? In the world we live in, the connection doesn't just merit stating -- it is necessary.

                    Again, I have not written that you are a "denier" nor do I spend much energy on this. That diary, last year, frustrated me and I responded to it -- with many words in it agreeing with and even praising you even as I critiqued with my explanation.

                    Is "every tornado" driven by climate change? Driven -- almost certainly not. Is there reason to be looking at what seem to be changed tornado event patterns to be questioning what the connection is between climate change and tornadoes in a thoughtful manner?  Yes.

                    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                    by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 08:03:05 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I try to take a step back & look at the odds (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      A Siegel

                      Arguing over language is not productive because we live in different places where people understand our words in different contexts.

                      The ratios of record highs to record lows is one way we can see the effects of climate change. Over the past few decades the ratio of record warm days to record cold days has gone way up. That's global warming at work. The individual events are weather, the bigger picture is climate change.

                      I also try to examine possible causes of extreme events. The Gulf of Mexico has been warming up faster in the spring recently. This rapid warm up has supported high dew points that have fueled intense tornado outbreaks. We have seen spring tornado outbreaks further north than they generally used to be as humid air masses get sucked well north of where they "should be" and interact with strong waves in the jet stream.

                      I think it's pointless to argue about individual weather events when the big picture is clear. We are experiencing warmer summers, earlier springs, later falls and bizarre winters. And we are experiencing more severe weather events which are causing record levels of property damage even after correction for demographics and economic growth.

                      look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

                      by FishOutofWater on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 06:00:27 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  Consider a perspective ... (0+ / 0-)

                    I just took a few minutes to search your recent diaries for discussions of climate change / global warming -- while I certainly could have made errors in searching, I didn't even find mention of the term.

                    Consider how you write on "weather" and "extreme weather" and ..., how often do you mention climate change / global warming as part of what is going on / driving things?  And, in within diaries ... not comments.

                    I know multiple people who blog re "weather" who receive extensive heat for discussing climate change and cases where large outlet editors have driven down climate change discussion within their weather reporting/blogging due to vitriolic anti-science engagement.  I'm pushing you from the other direction ...

                    Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                    by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 08:09:03 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I understand. (6+ / 0-)

                      I specialize in discussing realtime weather and weather forecasting in the medium (5-7 days) range, not talking about how climate change is causing it. I let folks like you and others in the Climate Hawks group write about that. You're just better at it.

                      For instance, I'm good at writing about the setup of a major flood, a derecho, or a hurricane. I'm freakin' terrible at writing about how the climate has shifted over the last 100 years and how a chain of events caused by climate change likely caused/impacted the event occurring right now.

                      I understand that it's a major issue, and many single-issue people here live and die by it, but it's just not my "thing."  I know you disagree and think my weather writings should be about climate change instead of realtime liveblogging, forecasting, and basic education (how derechos develop, why a certain event happened, etc.), but I write about what I'm comfortable talking about on a reasonably well-educated level.

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                      If you say "gullible" real slow, it sounds like "green beans."

                      by weatherdude on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:40:11 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No ... (0+ / 0-)

                        I do not think that your "weather writings should be about climate change" but do believe that you are doing a disservice to yourself and 'your' subject matter when you discussions 'explaining' the derecho and don't even have a phrase stating that climate change looks to be increasing the likelihood of such events.

                        Those immediate weather events are happening within a context ... your writing on those events is (far too) often context free.

                        Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                        by A Siegel on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:47:18 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Well, one would assume that folks reading about (4+ / 0-)

                          weather on a liberal blog don't live under a rock, and can pretty readily surmise that more heat = more fuel = more intense storms without having to be told.

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                          If you say "gullible" real slow, it sounds like "green beans."

                          by weatherdude on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 09:53:57 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  If you are not aware ... (0+ / 0-)

                            1.  There are serious skeptics and even outright deniers even at "a liberal blog" like Daily Kos -- and, well, those "reading about weather" often include those (if you think back on commentary on your own diaries you probably can find examples).

                            2. And, again, if you make this strong link and know it, again, ask yourself why there isn't a sentence within a discussion/description of Derechos along the lines of "While Derechos are a long named weather phenomena, climate change's warming could have helped create the conditions for the devastating damage that occurred."

                            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                            by A Siegel on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 04:29:58 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  Then, write about it yourself. (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          mayim

                          weatherdude has already explained to you, ad nauseum, that his posts about short term events.  That is weather.  What you want him to discuss is climate.  They are not one and the same thing.  

                          Quit trying to make him write about a scientific topic about which he doesn't feel qualified to write.

                          Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

                          by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 02:31:23 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Let's see ... (0+ / 0-)

                            1.  I don't write about climate issues and haven't written about links to extreme weather?

                            2. No, I don't want him "to write" about climate science.  What he is doing is "explaining" weather events without, essentially ever, mentioning the context within which they are occurring -- a major element of that context.  

                            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                            by A Siegel on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 04:26:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Guess what? Weatherdude doesn't write (0+ / 0-)

                            about climate issue either.  He writes about weather.  Why?  Because that is an area about which he feels comfortable in his scientific knowledge.  He has stated repeatedly that climatology is NOT an area he feels qualified to discuss.

                            That is responsible scientific reporting -- only discussing that about which you have knowledge.  If you cannot understand that then you are hopeless/

                            Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

                            by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 11:15:02 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Thanks for calling me hopeless ... (0+ / 0-)

                            since you are simply not actually absorbing what I am communicating.

                            This is not "responsible scientific reporting" -- to discuss weather conditions without mentioning (or linking to others discussions of) the elephant in the room. To have multiple explanatory pieces on the Derecho without having any mention in them of global warming / climate change as a likely contributing factor to the severity?  The absence of even the briefest of mention is, in fact, the height of irresponsibility. And, if you can't understand that ...

                            Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart NOW! for a sustainable energy future.

                            by A Siegel on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 09:06:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  I wonder if Russia will start to get more (6+ / 0-)

      tornados? I had a Russian co-worker about 10 years ago when I worked in Idaho and the number one thing that scared her about the U.S. was tornados. She said they were very rare in Russia, and that the weather was in general much less stormy there overall. My own limited experience in the country seemed to bear that out. I was there during hurricane Katrina and the event held a huge fascination for the Russians I worked with at the time; they were very sympathetic with us about it.

      Moderation in most things.

      by billmosby on Sun Jul 08, 2012 at 07:41:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dew points would have to rise (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        billmosby

        We have the Gulf of Mexico and the Gulf Stream to provide humidity to storms in the spring. Russia has mountains blocking humid air penetration from the south.

        look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

        by FishOutofWater on Mon Jul 09, 2012 at 06:04:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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