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View Diary: Anti-Capitalist Meetup: Working Class Self-Activity: Leading the USA to Democracy (81 comments)

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  •  I am not reading too fast ... I understand (1+ / 0-)
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    Gordon20024

    exactly what you are saying ... I do not care if you think I am imperceptive at all ...

    We cannot eliminate class in a society based upon class, just like we cannot eliminate racism or sexism by pretending that it does not exist. We have not transcended these things; in order to eliminate them we need to change the whole structure of the economy, society and politics ... we need to fight against capitalism, we need to build new structures together ... I honestly do not know what we have done without you to lead us! If I believed in god, I would thank him for your existence to deliver us from a system which has plagued us since the 18th century! Who knew, all we needed to do was to pretend class does not exist, and it would be so!

    "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

    by NY brit expat on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 09:59:40 PM PDT

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    •  My comment was nuanced... (0+ / 0-)

      You're overlooking the nuances. This is tiring. Of course we live in a society with very real class divisions with implications that are deep, lasting, and detrimental to most of us.

      My use of the term was also in the sense of having judgmental stereotypes based on class... something I've expereinced a lot in my life, which if you bothered to learn about, has been filled to the brim with these issues. Semantics... you're not getting this.

      But feel free to keep kicking my ass based on your strawmen.

      "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

      by ZhenRen on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 10:21:24 PM PDT

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      •  I am missing the judgmental stereotypes (1+ / 0-)
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        Gordon20024

        to which you are referring, perhaps that is the basis of the problem ... no one is judging anyone, there is no need for judgement; it is a discussing of the state of the movement, nothing more.  While I think that Occupy is perhaps the best thing to come out of the US since the IWW, we need to analyse where the movement is, that cannot happen without an understanding of why the labour movement is so weak, why we are unable to get people to move beyond reformist arguments. I do not get where you are seeing judgements.

        The trade union movement has long been co-opted (I am not talking about IWW), I am talking about the leadership of the mainstream unions. That is a truth, there was a capital-labour compromise conducted between the ruling class and the trade union leadership. That does not mean that the rank and file have been co-opted, but we do need to recognise that the trade union movement has, irrespective of the compromise, been facing a long term and deliberate sustained attack by the ruling classes, hand in hand with the mainstream political parties, democratic and republican. The left was driven out of the mainstream unions or driven into hiding (yes, I am quite aware that they are there), they are weak because the sectors that they were strong in have been deliberately shifted overseas, now they are going for the state/public sector. We need to understand objective and subjective conditions to understand the situation

        "Hegel noticed somewhere that all great world history facts and people so to speak twice occur. He forgot to add: the one time as tragedy, the other time as farce" Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte .

        by NY brit expat on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 10:39:10 PM PDT

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        •  Oh my... (0+ / 0-)

          You're continuing to misinterpret my comments. Never mind... let's move on.

          "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act". -George Orwell

          by ZhenRen on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 11:56:58 PM PDT

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