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View Diary: Sexism, Misandry, and Male-Bashing (87 comments)

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  •  Who Is Privileged? (3+ / 0-)
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    gzodik, Mortifyd, Avilyn

    I don't  disagree with you if we are talking about economics and power. But there are different kinds of privilege, and the opportunity to take care of young children seems to me the most challenging, thrilling job of all. My real peer group is the under-three's) They are by far the best learners I have encountered in my almost 67 years.

    Almost all caregivers of young children  and elders are paying a huge economic price for that privilege. We totally devalue family work and exalt market work.

    by Redstocking on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:07:13 AM PDT

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    •  Legally and economically (3+ / 0-)
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      CuriousBoston, Smoh, Avilyn

      Females are the disadvantaged group. For example, the glass ceiling still exists. I am not going to find links. I happen to know for a fact that when a man and a woman do the same work, on average the woman gets paid less. Local state and federal governments feel it necessary to pass laws about their reproductive processes. What laws have been passed about a males reproductive system that didn't include greater access to viagra? None that i have heard about.

      The media constantly portrays women as objects. Yes, this is happening more and more to men as well, but it still has a way more wide-ranging affect on women. Women are held to an often unattainable standard of beauty, and when that standard of beauty (inevitably) cannot be attained, it crushes self esteems. Again, this is happening to men to, but I would posit that not on the scale that it is happening to women all over this country and all over the world.

      seriously, you are not going to change my opinion on this. Males are privileged in our society.  

      Squidward: The noises! How are you two making those noises?

      Patrick: Well, that's easy. All you need is a box.

      SpongeBob: And...imagi~nation!

      by rexymeteorite on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:16:20 AM PDT

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      •  But feminists don't even talk about men (3+ / 0-)
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        gzodik, Dr Swig Mcjigger, Avilyn

        being "objectified." Once on DKos someone tried to shut someone up with just this: "But feminism has nothing to do with men." Well, if that's true, then, yeah, you'll never notice men being increasingly "objectified" as well.

        I personally believe it makes much more sense to understand the prevalence, say, of barechested men with big muscles, tattooss, piercings, etc that grace the covers of countless magazines such as Rolling Stone, as part of a body cult in the US today. Indeed in countries usually viewed as more macho and sexist, such as Mexico, this body cult does not exist (as it does here). In short, I think the Second Wave instinct to always start with some mythical "woman" just doesn't work well this day in age.

        One boy against the Stock Market all Wall Street ascream. --Allen Ginsberg, "Elegy Ché Guévara"

        by Anak on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:30:09 AM PDT

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        •  yes it happens to men too (1+ / 0-)
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          you'll notice I specifically said that in my post.

          For the record, I don't care about "waves" of feminists. It really doesn't matter to me.

          Squidward: The noises! How are you two making those noises?

          Patrick: Well, that's easy. All you need is a box.

          SpongeBob: And...imagi~nation!

          by rexymeteorite on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 11:34:31 AM PDT

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        •  I Hate Male Body Colt (3+ / 0-)
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          Anak, raincrow, Avilyn

          The male body cult is do discouraging. When I was young, I thought all men were going to have long hair, wear beards, earrings, colorful clothing. I find hairless chests and six packs a total turnoff. Both my husbands have been bearded and furry.

          As a young woman, I naively thought women were freeing themselves from the cult of beauty and fashion. I never dreamed that men would succumb. I despair of all the women of my generation who are "fighting aging."  They are  mutton in lamb's clothing.

          My mother, my 12 aunts, and my grandmas never fought aging, and I thought they were beautiful.

          by Redstocking on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:00:13 PM PDT

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        •  This feminist believes men are objectified. (3+ / 0-)
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          Avilyn, Dr Swig Mcjigger, Anak

          And depersonalized and minimized precisely in proportion to the objectification, depersonalization, and minimization of women.

          Back in the 70s, I was THRILLED to hear that one of my political heroes, Kate Millett, was coming to out-of-the-way southern Virginia to lecture on feminism. I ended up jumping in her shit for her cavalier assertion that women should not serve in any combat capacity because if they're captured they can be raped. I was gobsmacked, disappointed, and so incensed I could have snatched her baldheaded. As if men have not historically been tortured with genital beating, burns, shock, and mutilation; anal penetration; and oral rape! As if my Navy brother's sensation of pain was not as exquisite as my own! As if he, or any male, was somehow "naturally" better equipped to handle the psychological and physical traumas of war! What unmitigated arrogance and hypocrisy. Equal rights and opportunity my fat white ass.

          Millett wouldn't admit the bigotry, ignorance, and complete failure of imagination and compassion underlying her assertion; and a number of attendees booed me until I drew wider cheers by arguing we should protect BOTH our boy and girl children by sending NEITHER to war.

          What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. THAT is feminism IMNSHO.

      •  About male objectification (3+ / 0-)
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        raincrow, Avilyn, Dr Swig Mcjigger

        Rexy, when you were growing up, did you never compare yourself to images of "the masculine ideal" that were presented to you? Did you ever feel inadequate by comparison? If so, how do you think it affected your development? If not, do you think your experience is representative of most boys?

        I have my own answers to these questions based on my own experience and I'm genuinely curious as to how your experience differs or corresponds with my own, not mention males in general.

        Nothing human is alien to me.

        by WB Reeves on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 12:57:05 PM PDT

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      •  In regards to parenting, though (0+ / 0-)

        Women are the "privileged" class and men are the "disadvantaged" (although I dislike both of those terms.  Women are heavily favored in custody cases, and often when the man ends up with custody, the women don't end up paying child support.

        I'm not saying you're wrong, BTW, that overall, men are generally the privileged class (or at least white men; race is a whole 'nother can of worms); but there are definitely areas for improvement.  Just as there are lots of areas for improvement in how females are treated.  

        I’m a feminist because the message is still "don’t get raped" not "don’t rape"

        by Avilyn on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 02:22:25 PM PDT

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    •  I'm pleased to report (3+ / 0-)
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      raincrow, Mortifyd, WB Reeves

      that all my younger-generation men are good fathers, and not just in the providing (money) way. One of my college age grandsons has never worked any other paid job than child care, and kids love him immensely. Doesn't work at the Y anymore, but has a steady list of weekend clients he met there whose kids won't stay with anybody but him. He's going to cosmetology school at the regional tech college so he'll have a fall-back means of making a decent living, and has become a Mary Kay beauty consultant to hopefully pay his way through herbalism school when he gets his C-license. Because that's truly where his passion and talents lie. I know that because I've been doing herbs/remedies for about 25 years, and he's been an apt - no, a gifted - pupil from the moment he moved here a few years ago to find a path to his future.

      I expect he'll be a star in all his endeavors, and he has chosen (several) paths that closely align with his sweet and caring nature, his aesthetic sensibilities, and his gift for knowing the natural world. Intuitively, colored by nearly photo-recall on plant classifications and species, encyclopedic data base on effects, uses and complementaries. Every bit as impressive as other college-age grandson's great in-head database of dinosaurs, all shapes, sizes and habits. That one's doing geology now, grad school lined up for paleontology - reflecting the passion and talents of HIS life.

      If you (or other readers) have made assumptions about either grandson's sexuality - i.e., "manhood" - purely from this grandmother's description, you just might be guilty of something mentioned in this diary's title.

      •  What a Wonderful Grandma You Are! (2+ / 0-)
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        Joieau, raincrow

        Joleau, I hope you are as proud of yourself and all your younger generation men as you should be.  I hope my grandsons turn out nearly as wonderful as your grandson. What a wonderful grandmother you are!

        by Redstocking on Wed Jul 11, 2012 at 01:16:02 PM PDT

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